Just what the HELL is wrong with gay people?

[ChelseaKF]

Personally, I don't agree with Homosexuality, but that doesn't mean I automatically Hate gays. I have friends who are gay, even relatives. I Don't support it but I still love them. I do get made when people slam gays because I think that we should hate the person rather hate what their doing. And for the Religious letter. I would like to talk to that guy to ask him why exactly did he stop in the new testament? I see what he is trying to point out but he is forgetting that the new testament greatly influences the law of the old. Rules change but the basics still existed. Things like do not murder and the rest of the commandments.
If you really want to challenge someone that way you have to do way more research than that.
And yes I am reposting this again.... it fit perfectly into this conversation.
And for the marriage thing.
Personally I still view marriage as a binding contract. I don't think that the problem with marriage is the law but more so the people. The reason why so many people get divorced is because they don't view marriage as a sacred thing anymore. The world we live in has deflated and demoralize the whole concept of marriage from what it once used to be. Now marriage is simply a piece of paper to most people. Can you really call it marriage if you don't hold it as a sacred commitment between each other. Without that then it is really only a piece of scrap that has words on it. Nothing more. The whole idea of ceremonial marriage started out in the "christian" church. And was viewed as a commitment to your love and your God. But now it has been brought down to a simple binding of the law,

[Fallain]

That's all we ask for. Total acceptance would be great, but really, just a single person a day that would look at us holding hands without a look of hatred makes our day.

Telling a homosexual that their going to hell is like telling a smoker than their going to get cancer. It's a wide known fact and if we cared about that, we would have changed or stopped by now.

[ChelseaKF]

To clarify Fallain. I really don't approve of Gay's or Les's. I don't support it and I really don't like the fact of Gay marriage. For me I view marriage in a religious view. And Gay marriage doesn't fit into my faith. Like I said before, I don't like the fact that people are gay, I even hate it to an extent. But I still feel love towards those people. There is nothing wrong with hating the actions or morals and loving the person. I hate the ways of the people not the people themselves.
Acceptance is what everyone strives for in this world. Even though acceptance doesn't even exist. Somewhere someone will always disagree with you, slander you, scoff at you and belittle you because of what you believe who you are or where you come from. I think everyone in their life faces discrimination to some degree. Some more than others. Everywhere around the world people are fighting for rights, Fighting for freedom. The freedom to speak the freedom to vote, the freedom to up themselves from oppression. And yet Here we are in a basically free country fighting, arguing, protesting over something like this. To me Some how I find that as a country our priorities have gone whack. Somewhere along the line we lost track of what we should be fighting for.

[Fallain]

Yea, it really is a shame that the free country with so many rights, is the one with all the fighting over love. Look at Japan, and Germany. (probably other countries but I don't personally know anyone in them or have been there so I can't say anything) They may not have legal marriage but at least the people there are more supportive. I positively envy my friend in Germany that can walk down a street with his boyfriend hand in hand and feel perfectly comfortable when I can't even walk out my front door. Isn't Germany supposed to be the horrible hateful people and we're supposed to be the kind-hearted ones? So much for that.

We have "rights" physically, but mentally, our government is still controlling us. I personally don't believe a country should be fighting at all, ESPECIALLY over something like this. Then again, maybe I myself am close-minded as well because I'm completely aghast at the fact that some people that hate our love can look in the mirrors with their black hearts day after day and truly be ok with who they are and feel like their a good person just because they do what people tell them to. Where would our country be if we didn't rebel? We'd still be British. So maybe it's time for another rebellion. Things need to change.

I fear that the kind of world that was in V for Vendetta is going to come. The people with the most hatred will take control and it's the people with the most love that will be punished, and everyone else will be perfectly content to step aside and let it happen. Because people are too close-minded and selfish to care about anyone but themselves. Who cares if a few hundred people die as long as their safe in their churches?

And if that's what this country comes to, I will gladly trade my citizenship and rights for acceptance in another country. Me and my girlfriend don't need someone to tell us we can get married to be happy together.

[Keito]

[monochromekangaroo]

Ah, now isn't this quite the debate?

I'm going to keep the lovely wall of text to come as unbiased as I can, however as all of us conversing on this lovely board already know everyone is biased in one way or another, and that's just because we've all had different experiences, we think differently, we practice differently, we live differently. I, myself, am an atheist and honestly look down upon the constitution of religion. However, that's not what the topic of discussion is, now is it?

On the issue of gay marriage, the practice of domestic partnership has been brought up and how religion is involved in the whole situation, but not once have I read something pertaining to religious gays. Yes, it's not unheard of. My cousin, who I can honestly say is the most wonderful man I have ever had the privilege of being acquainted with, and his boyfriend are both Christian, and who is it to tell them that they cannot be joined together through marriage? My Christian friends argue that marriage is solely between a man and a woman. Please, show me where that is stated, because I'd like to see it for myself. Besides, isn't God supposed to love all of his children equally? Why in the world would my cousin not be loved just the same as someone else who fell in love with someone of the opposite sex? This is not something that a person can control. You cannot control love, and love is love no matter who it is with. Maybe I just don't understand, or maybe I'm being completely biased on my part, which is all very plausible, but I just don't see why gay, lesbian, or bi people should be treated any differently than someone who is heterosexual. That is discrimination, just like discrimination against someone of another religion, or ethnicity, etc.

The other thing about marriage, to me, is that it's not solely about the religious aspect or even the legal bindings to some people (such as myself personally) but more the tradition of the whole thing. It's one thing to be "civilly unified" with someone, but marriage.. Marriage is a loaded word. There is so much more to that word than the definition behind it or even the ceremony itself. It's the dress, and the proclaiming eternal love to the person that you want to spend the rest of your life with, and your family and friends being their to recognize, accept, and witness your love.

I understand that marriage is something that is based on religion (specifically Christianity, I believe, yes?) but if you're going for the religious aspect of it, why should someone of another religion be allowed to marry? Why should I be allowed to marry someone I love if I do not believe in God, if someone who is GBLT is not? I do want to get married, even if I am atheist, because of the traditions behind it, and I'm not denied this right, so why should someone who practices the religion and believes in God be denied the same right?

I don't know. Maybe I just don't understand.

[Keito]

Well said. ^_^

I believe Equal Marriage will be the way of things some day. It's just as it was said earlier, things coming to be in phases after struggling to make it so, ya know?

I think Prop 8: The Musical makes some valid points. And, who doesn't love Jack Black playing the role of Jesus? (Dr. Horrble makes an appearance as well!)

[KeinLeben]

I was going to join this debate but it looks like Fallain and Monochrome have already taken the words right out of my mouth and left me with nothing to say except that I fully agree.

[Keito]

[monochromekangaroo]

[Aaya-Tan]

WEll said, well said. I personally don't have any qualms with it.

If a gay couple wants to me just as miserable as a heterosexual married couple, all hail to it. Personally, I support lesbianism, because that means there's less females to each male on the planet.

And I have a shot at getting a boyfriend. *shot*

I KID I KID.

I used to be a huge bible thumper... When I was like, eight. But I quickly grew out of most of that, but still withold some the morals that my church taught me. Such as no premarital sex etc.

I agree that a MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE is insignificant. I think that the wedding itself is what's so sentimental as opposed to the fact you know have a piece of paper and have to get your social security card changed for the last name.

It's every little girl's dream (Until they hit a certain age anyway, still mine at least and I'm 22) to be married to their prince charming. Men, I don't see so much enthusiasm from their side, but that's not to say they don't possible go all googly eyes over the idea of being with someone for forever and being recognized for it.

I believe marriage is a sentimentality as opposed to just being a legal binding contract personally. I look at it from a romanticists point of view, as opposed to a hard nosed Christian that believes gays are bad and evil and whatever else folks say. My cousin's homosexual, and he's white, and dating a black man.

His mother's a Preacher's Wife, and his step father was a preacher and you know what?

They still love him, even though they don't believe in his choice. They might be wrong about what Gayness IS in general, or how someone gets it or whatever, but they don't cre that he is and still love him and care about him.

Acceptance is something that every person of every religion, color, and belief wants. It's what America was first founded on. The Pilgrims wanted acceptance to practice whatever religion they chose to, and they left and did it.

[KeinLeben]

Yea, guys just don't seem to be as gung-ho about marriage as girls unless the girl their with is really into it. I for one will probably never get married if I have the choice and will happily spend the rest of my life with my lover (wither they be a boy or a girl) having a different last name from me.
I don't think it's the fact that gays want to get married so badly though, as they just want to be treated like equals like everyone else. It's the morals of the matter.

[Aaya-Tan]

I have to agree, seeing as I don't think one of the gay males would wear a wedding dress anyway.

The key issue here isn't the fact about marriage, it's the fact that they want to have that option just like everyone else does. Equality is just that. They want to know that if they wanted to, they could get married.

It's like saving money and putting it in the bank. You don't really want to spend it, but it's a comfort to know that it's there if you need it. Or, like Chu stated earlier, bearing arms.

You don't go around hunting, but you own a gun because it makes you feel safer.

People don't have to get married, it's frowned upon by most Christians if you sleep together or live in the same house and have kids but are never married, but that's mainly the older generations that grew up in a far different culture than the generation of today did.

They were taught different morals from, oh, say the middle schoolers of today. I mean, they're handing out condoms in highschool, how sad is that?

I grew up in a family that never believed in anything before marriage. Marriage is a key factor in our family, not because we want to have the same last name, but it's a sign of affection between two people who genuinely care about each other enough. That and it can create beautiful memories to look back on.

"He loved me enough to want to publicly proclaim in such a way that he wanted to stay with me forever"

Then again, what my friend said held true.

"Marriage is the leading cause of divorce".

[KeinLeben]

Well of course marriage is the leading cause of divorce, if your not married you can't get divorced. You've got a smart friend.
This all basically just circles back to the fight between Christianity and the gays. Every argument seems to be linked back to christian beliefs, morals and the bible even though people were getting married way back before Christianity existed in the Roman Empire. What would Aphrodite say about all this? If The Roman Gods were the main worship today, would there be such a big issue about gay marriage right now?
And it is a shame about kids and condoms. Instead of trying to teach them about abstinence until their old enough they just give them the means for safe sex. Which i'd rather they were using the condoms than not, but I still don't think kids should be encouraged at such an influential age. After all, this isn't the 16th century. 15 year old girls don't need to start a family yet.

[Aaya-Tan]

Yes, it does. She is extremely wise, even though she's a complete idiot. *koffkoff*

Anyway, let's see...

Christianity, in my opinion, is the root of most simple problems made difficult, in all honesty. People don't know how to keep their religion out of politics.

Such as the gay marriage with the previous election prior to this one.

Bush promised he'd deal with gay marriage to appeal to his party. In the end, it was never addressed until the NEXT ELECTION.

And look once more. No one's done anything for or against it since then. There is no honest 'dealing with or against' anything that has to deal with truely equal rights. Everything is either taken away, or out of context in the Constitution nowadays. I don't honestly see the point of it anymore, it really just burns me up to see people treating others this way.

What's worse is when kids pretend to be gay for attention. It's hard to tell if someone's an honest gay or not nowadays because being bisexual has become such a fad. Girls do it because guys like lesbian porn, and guys do it because, well, I don't know why a guy would do it, honestly. I think because they want to get back an ex, I don't honestly know the logic behind it in general ("Seme" I can understand, but "Ukes" are.. Still a mystery to me.)

I still say it's ridiculous in all entirety. *shakes fist at outlandish laws*