Do we really own anything?

[TGPretender]

The way I understand the word "own" is to have possession of an item until voluntarily relinquishing said possession. Truly owning something means it cannot be taken from you. It is yours. If you decide to throw it away, that is your decision and no one else's.

With this definition in mind, I have wondered if I truly own anything. Any property under my name is bought through loans from a bank, giving them partial ownership until I have paid off the debt. But even then, I don't necessarily own the item after the debt is paid. Many things are taxed, such as a car or a home, and if the tax is not paid, the item can be repossessed or otherwise taken from me. This implies that I am merely leasing the item and that my ownership of it is based solely on whether or not another believes they have been compensated for my ownership of it. That's not what it means to own something.

Material items, such as computers and furniture, are not taxed but they can still be taken from me forcibly if I do not pay off debts. Doesn't this mean I still don't own them? Do I really own anything at all? The only items I can think of that do not carry this burden of unknown ownership are food items. You've never heard of a government official coming in and stealing the last slice of pizza.

It's just one of the things I think about, sometimes. I want to eventually have a house but I know that it's more a matter of leasing the land the house sits on than owning it. I will have to continually pay property taxes even after the bank is paid off for the home loan. If I don't pay these taxes, my home will be taken from me. Does this mean I'll never really own one?

I don't know if this applies to people in countries other than the USA, but this occurred to me one day. What are your thoughts?

[lexi luthor]

well... I guess if I cut my hair off I'd own it and nobdy could take it from me. But I don't think we even own ourselves technically. Cause can't we go tyo jail? Or doesn't that count? I'm not sure. But I do agree with you on everything.

[ecco]

its an interesting perspective. the only thing that surprises me is that you didnt mention theft. even if you bought something with all your own money, no loans involved from a bank or otherwise, someone could still rob you of any material item. even goes for things like a house, they may not be able to pick it up and run off with it but they can burn it down or smash it from the roof to the foundations.

one thing we do own that no one can take from us is our opinion on anything. you can be told you are wrong or that your opinion is offensive and you shouldnt repeat it, but nobody can stop you feeling the way you do about anything.

[lexi luthor]

Yeah, that is true... but are we talking about things we own materially or not? Or both?

[Chu]

FFFFFFFF MARXISM.

To me, the answer is simple: No, we don't own anything, and that's exactly how the government likes it. End of story.

But I don't want to be an ass.

How can a government assert authority over the people if they truly have a sense of ownership over something? People work hard to attain what they own, but they have to continue working had in order to keep it. Otherwise big brother can come in and take it, because big brother is stronger. Under that twisted concept of ownership, people do as they're told not because they want to, but because they have to. You know what that tells me? No true free will. You know what that means? No ownership of yourself.


But honestly, I'm fine with the way that works, for now. People already have a largely inflated sense of self in the first place, so something needs to keep them down to Earth, even if it's unjust; more unjust than their bigotry in most cases. It sounds terrible, but it keeps things going. If there ever came a time when people didn't think so highly of themselves and weren't in danger of becoming "too big for their britches" if you will, then I would want to see change. For now though, I'm more content living under this oppression. It keeps things orderly, which I value more than philosophical personal "rights" any day. After all, who are we to judge what true ownership is and isn't?

Yes, yes, I see the fallacy too. "Under that logic, who are you to determine whether bigotry is unjust?" Hey, it's my opinion. I may be a legal adult now, but I haven't had any experience with this whatsoever, so my opinion will likely change over time. For now, I still live with mommy. I'm still a burden to society.

[TGPretender]

[Chu]

Oh yeah, it's Marxism. XD Then again. I'm hypersensitive to it because of my English teacher from last year; now my Journalism teacher.

Towering man: "Everything is political."
Frail blond: "But... I don't like politics!!"


Anyway, back on topic for me!

I don't know if I'd try to escape this society, honestly. My feminine nature craves structure and stability. Add that to the extreme comfort I get knowing that my relationship with the government is built off of my inferiority to it and you have something very powerful tying me down. And trust me, I'm not the only one. I'm just a rarity in the fact that I understand psychology behind my dependence on and connection to the government.


Have you ever read Thoreau's Civil Disobedience? It discusses extensively this very issue, written by a man who tried living off the land, once. It's very enlightening, but kind of depressing, realizing exactly how futile it is for us to gain true independence and/or freedom.

Actually, I want to pick it up again when I have more time. It was assigned to me AS my introduction to Marxism, so I didn't fully understand the complexity of the subject. Now though, I'm so apathetic to it, that I'm afraid I still won't see the point. "What can ya do?"

[ecco]

most people are more political and philosophical than they realise. largely due to people thinking "i dont do politics" - yes you do, you dont have a choice. if youre not standing up for something, youre laying down and submitting to the will of others, so either way youre taking part in it. and most people seem to think philosophy means "what chair?" - not so. theory of knowledge borderlines on that kinda stuff, but philosophy covers pretty much everything in life.

including this questioning of ownership. XD

i stand by what i said that the one thing we can always own is our own opinions. like chu said, our free will is even imposed upon by higher powers ie the government. to be honest, if i had my way, i'd like to spend my life wandering about aimlessly doing very little but enjoying the small things - but you cant do that. unless youre disabled, you either must be in education or in work. i could bunk out on it and sponge off the dole, but that is abusing every other tax paying member of society. its an option, but one i couldnt personally take due to my morals.

[Lady Lyria]

You've all raised very good points....I hope nobody will be annoyed by this, but seeing as I am a Christian, I believe that all things come from God and therefore everything belongs to him. Another thing I've heard was something referring to the amount of debt America owes China. Technically all citizens of America belong to the Chinese government, because of the billions that America owes to them. We've spent ourselves into slavery. It's truly horrific, if you think about it....kinda sucks. Unfortunately nothing can be done about it. V_V