The Death Penalty

[Miyani-chan]

Duck ::
Then I'm glad I'm not the only one. (:


OKAY, AFTER READING ECCO'S AND MENMETH'S POST, I AM OFFICIALLY JUMBLED.
I agree with Menmeth's thoughts on some crazy maniacs going wild and them going to jail, which they just don't really deserve. For the example Menmeth gave, I really think that guy should've died. He deserved it.
Unfortunately, I don't really approve of my "you-deserve-this" kind of punishment. Some people I think should die, while I think others should live. It's a matter of opinion to me, which why I absolutely don't involve myself with court.
I think the punishments should really depend on what the criminal did, which is what our law system does these days. Unfortunately, I disapprove of the 'plea bargain', since I can't just accept with someone harassing a family in such a way(referring to Menmeth's example again).
I do think a few punishments(like burning) are pretty harsh, but I ALSO think that such criminals should be aware of the punishments and consequences that are ahead of them. If the system was much harsher and the death penalty occurred much more often, I think some criminals would be scared and back off - but I definitely know that some people out there are really passionate about things and WILL do whatever they please, no matter the punishment.
Unfortunately, there is a little part of me that pulls me back from me saying strongly, "they should go die". My religion, Christianity, believes that our God is forgiving, but you should still stay away from such acts. If crazy criminals were going crazy, and they were going with a punishment that's not as harsh, I would at least like for them to change in a way where they feel DEEPLY, DEEPLY sorry. At the least.
Unfortunately, my thought is based on a religion; everyone in this world is not a Christian and does not think the same. I suppose we can't all get what we want in this world.

...and yes, I know, my thoughts are all jumbled up again. > >

[ecco]

[Fork]

Interesting. I believe that a death penalty is necessary in some cases, like a single person massecre, If you take the lives of innocent people, you not only need to be stopped, but you need to be killed. Not because you commited murder. But because you murdered INNOCENT lives, that cant be taken back. So, If you are a murderer, and you kill innocent people, then you need to do your own self the honor of killing yourself. Im not trying to sound like someone who thinks the death penalty is right. Im just saying that I do believve that it is necessary in alot of cases.

When it comes to things like, robbing a bank, and no innocent lives were taken, the death penalty should not be issued. And, lets not forget. Noone really knows how the government works. They could do stuff, and dont tell us about it. So food for thought.

I can understand the death penalty, all im saying is that, In the name of justice, once a murderer, always a murderer, lives cant be returned, the past cant be undone. Unless sometime in the near future they invent time travell. Then the world would be chaos.

Well those are my thoughts on the death penalty, I only believe in it to a certain extent.

[The Emo Duck]

Fork: Right now the death penalty is only used in murder cases. And most people who go on a "massacre" do end up usually killing themselves because they have mental dysfunctions and they generally just want to go out with a bang; this is speaking of mass murderers. But serial killers don't generally kill themselves unless caught by the authorities; in which case many commit assisted suicide because they don't want to go to jail.

I feel like the death penalty is an easy way out for some of them, some of them would rather die than be in jail; especially child murderers because they get the most crap in jail. So I believe the worse of the 2 punishments in life in prison without chance of parole because then they have to live with what they did; given most of them don't care because they are sociopaths. But at least in prison the prisoners mess with each other and they've all been convicted of something horrible; so if one ends up killing another in a fight then it won't be as big of a loss, I say not as big because it still is one; a life is a life no matter who it is. And a lot of them end up hanging themselves or killing themselves in some other way when put in jail. Why spend so much on the death penalty when many criminals, mostly massmurderers and serial killers, think life without parole is worse; they end up in jail and some kill themselves or are killed by others which saves millions of dollars.

It is true that once in jail many won't feel bad for what they have done, because as I said many serial killers are sociopaths which means they pretty much can't feel what other humans feel. Now this is because of the way their brain is wired, so in a weird way it's not their fault they can't feel. But it is their fault that they use the lack of feeling empathy or sympathy to kill others. Sociopaths do know what they are doing so they do end up standing trial and don't get off on the insanity plea, which is why I mentioned them.

Now the people who only commit one murder and it is a crime of passion; they will later feel remorse and possibly become a better person if put in jail and given a chance to be released. Crimes of passion murders are spur of the moment and many don't even realize what they are doing until AFTER the deed is done. There generally isn't any overkill and there wasn't torture and most are done with guns or large knives you can find in a person's kitchen. They aren't planned out so there was no intent to kill. You know the feeling you get when someone pisses you off so much and you want to hit them? Most people who commit these crimes have years of pent up rage and one thing sends them off; like a woman who has been abused for years and finds her husband in bed with someone else and she pulls out a gun to defend herself because she is scared he will hurt her for walking in so when he approaches, she shoots him.

Of course some crimes of passion are set off by mental illness, in that case they do get the insanity plea and end up in a mental facility.

Sorry not all of that was towards you, once I started I couldn't stop haha >> I've been researching this for 6 years... Death penalty, serial killers, murderers, brutal crimes, and mental abnormalities ... I'm like an encyclopedia haha

[Fork]

Well then you should understand, lets go back to the miracle of birth for a second here. Okay, when a child is born, out of millions of sperm surrounding an egg only one can get into the egg, the others die. So that means, you have a 1/millions chance of being born then, so i realise that with your experience that you do understand that. What gives another person the right to kill someone and then all they get is prison, if they take a life, which is precious then they have NO humanity in them. Pretty much all they are is just a walking body who carries the blood of those he's killed in his path. Imean, only reason i could see for killing another is self defense. Thats the only thing i could think of. Yes, true, it is a life none the less, but there are moments when we as humans have to put the moral aside and take care of business. Im not sure if those who are in prison for life are allowed to have visitors or not, but like, if they are allowed to, then they can still conduct murder plots in jail if they so choose. If the person is strong enough, or powerful enough, he can murder IN JAIL so possibilities are endless. If the governemt wasnt so fucked up in the head, then there would be no framed murders, but if i was framed for murder, thats the only flaw, and yes it does happen, but there are also those who really are guilty. My cousin was taken for a ride, they snatched him out teh car stabbed him in the back (literally) and shot him 4 times and he fell into the ground, they covered him with leaves and then lefft him there, they found his body 3 months later, nothing but the bones and the clothes. Identified by the chippedd tooth he has. And the murderer, his room mate, all he got was 7 years, and he's out right now. He could possibly kill anyone he wants, right now, anytime he wants anyway he wants and there isnt a damn thing we can do about it until it is done, so why should we let something like that happen again? may as well put an end to it. Do it for mankind, not personal feelings.

[The Emo Duck]

I wouldn't say they have no humanity in them. The boy who killed my best friend was 17. He got life in jail with chance of parole; I have met him and his family. He was young and impressionable and his friends manipulated him into killing 3 young girls. They were released not too long ago because they didn't commit the actual crime. One of them is now back in jail because he murdered someone.

The 17 year old who actually committed the crimes is remorseful and wished he hadn't let his friends manipulate him. I actually feel bad for him and he killed my best friend... He was a model student too, never got in trouble, had all As. Now I understand that the fact he is young contributes to the fact he can be manipulated easily. And that brings up another debate, the death penalty for people under a certain stage in brain development, at his age the prefrontal cortex located in the frontal lobe isn't developed yet, therefore his ability to make decisions and control impulses are greatly impaired. There have been cases in which young people have committed crimes and been released and lived a normal life without hurting anyone else. And as you said there have been people who are put into jail who are innocent, what if the crime they have been accused of is punishable by death? That would be the government killing innocent people when the actual killer is still out there.

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, and 7 years doesn't sound like proper punishment at all. Was that the court decision or did they give him a plea bargain? Also was he the only one who helped commit the crime? and how old was he when he did it? What state was it in, or country if not in the US? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable, but all of those could be factors in the decision of his punishment. But like I said I believe 7 years isn't near enough for that sort of crime.

[Fork]

Duck; don't get me wrong. I fully understand what you are getting at and i respect your feelings on such. I'm just saying that, if you are 17, you know that there are consequences for your actions. And, most families of those who commit such crimes are usually nice, down to earth people, and yeah, impulses do happen, but we as controllable humans must control that impulse or you can end up in serious trouble. And peer pressure is in no way an excuse. Alot of things such as this as a result of peer pressure are things like gang initiation and such. Are you alright to say his reasons are for killing 3 young girls?

And as for my cousin. He was set up. He and some friends were in a car driving to a party. The driver, the murderer was with his girlfriend, she was on front seat. they went to the party, put something in his drink, then they acted as if they were going to take him home cus he wasn't feeling well. He's drugged so his mind isnt right. they tell him to get out in the middle of a wooded area, drugged he's thinking he's at home, and he's about to walk in the front door or whatever, i suppose. So then the killer, he shanked him in the back. then shot him 4 times.the killer's girlfriend is the one who had told on him, as an eye witness!its been aboit a 7 year trial. i dont kno why he out.

[The Emo Duck]

I know what you are saying by that we need to learn to control our impulses but at the age of 17 you don't quite have that ability because that part of your brain isn't there...

I'm not exactly sure what that question says... but I think you are asking whether I think it's okay that he did it or not... Of course I don't think it's okay. I don;t think anyone should be killed, hence why I don't want the death penalty. And one of them was my best friend. So I'm not saying that because he was pressured that makes it alright; I'm just saying it's different than someone who goes out and kills because they want to. I think it's scary though that nice people can be pressured into something like that, but it does happen.

[Fork]

Nonononono I was asking if he gave a reason why he killed them, like when he said he was pressured, why would they pressure him to do that? what was theyr motive for doing such?

And Im 17 and i know full well what the consequences are for murder, and i know that if I do kill somebody, there is a chance of me getting the death penalty, or life in prison, I sure as hell dont wanna go to prison and i for damn sure dont want to die, and yes, killing somebody is wrong, I would never kill someone, unless they assaulted me with a deadly weapon or something like that, then im taking ur ass down. But yeah, we do understand each other's thoughts on the debate. :3

AGGHH I LOVE THIS FORUM XD

[The Emo Duck]

He was a loner, because no one liked him... So he wanted friends and they said they wouldn't be his friends unless he did it.

At the age of 17 you think you know how you will act in certain situations, and it's the same for everyone. But when you are 17 and you have an impulse you can't control it as well as someone who is say 26; because your prefrontal cortex isn't developed yet.

[Fork]

Well, maybe its just me, because I realize that after high school, there's a possibility that I wont be seing any of them again. And imean come on, an A student should have enough sense to Know that. It seens like he just wanted to fit in with the gangsters or something. Im sorry if i sound kinda like an asshole, i really am, but I dont find it understandable to kill somebody because he just wanted to fit in. and at the age of 17, you should be mentally mature enough, especially seing as he is an A student. That tells me he is responsible. Responsible in that he knew that if he didnt make As he would not do well in life. So that also tells me that killing somebody wont exactly help you do well in life either. So, I could never ever understand why he would do such a thing. All he can do now is say that he wish he hadn't done it. which is what all people (almost all) in jail now say. and I know of a guy who pulled attempted murder. went to jail said he wish he hadnt done it, when he got out, he went back and finished the job. so yeh, i dont understand, and i never will.

[The Emo Duck]

You can't understand unless you are put into that position. Everyone else in school made fun of him, he had depression for a while and then when someone said they would accept him, he was happy about that. The murders didn't happen until a year after he had been friends with them. They seemed like perfectly nice kids; until one day they asked him to kill for them. And they threatened to never talk to him again and tell all of the other kids everything he had told them; which would make the taunting worse and the depression return. He didn't feel like he had a choice, he felt trapped so he did the only thing he could think of in the situation.

I truly believe he should be let out at some point in time, maybe not quite yet because he does have to do some time for what he did. But I feel like he won't commit another murder. I know people lie about things like that just to get out, but there are also the people who don't like about it and actually do feel bad.

Also learning and getting As in school is a different part of the brain than decision making. The part of the brain that helps you learn is always there to be developed but the prefrontal cortex located in the frontal lobe that helps with decision making and impulses start in early adolescence. Which is why when teenagers are driving and get into an accident they are less likely to be able to make the right decision as adults are. If you are put under enough pressure and you don't have a fully developed prefrontal cortex you can be easily pressured into doing something you don't want to do.

[Fork]

You do bring up an excellent point, but the cold heart truth is that he knows that if he would get caught killing, then he would suffer for it, and he is. Out of all of the things, it is sort of a selfish decision, because you don't take a life or three just so you can avoid redicule at school. I know the pressure he could've felt when he was faced with that decision, but me, What i would do in that situation, I'd just turn them down and i wouldnt give a fuck what they did, that internal feeling of knowing that I spared lives even though my own was miserable for about another year and a half. That cant even compare, killing wouldnt even be an option. But thats just me i suppose, I really couldnt understand unless im in that situation, but I would never do such a thing just to get accepted. Maybe the kid didnt have a strong enough heart.

[The Emo Duck]

You can't really say what you would do in the situation.... Because you haven't been in it... You don't know what depression feels like or being overly ridiculed by kids at school. You can say you'd do something in a situation now but if you were actually in it you would act differently in most cases.

Some victims of crimes like rape and muggings and attacks will think they would do a certain thing to defend themselves, but when actually in the situation they react in a completely different way. You can't simulate the pressure another person is feeling unless you are actually in their shoes. Just like you can't know what racism feels like unless someone is outwardly racist against you. And in a class of 3rd graders a teacher tried that out and it's true that a person can't comprehend how another person feels unless put in the exact situation.

[Fork]

Well, actually, In the 7th grade I used to get bullied. I'd get pushed down and slapped up side the head at random. I was a little fat kid then, it was like me, against the world. I was depressed because everyone thought I was weak. I was my own person and followed my own beliefs. I kept it from my family and I just endured it. I got jumped in the hallway and pinned down. And humiliated in front of everyone. I was upset, sure, i wanted to hurt them but i knew that if i killed them I would go to jail forever or get a death penalty, even in the 7th grade, its something the tell you at assemblies. Then one day I got threatend to be jumped after school by gang members. Yeah, I was scared, so of course I avoided that path, I think it was pretty smart on my behalf. And then one day, something crazy happend. I was sitting in class and I felt a paper ball hit me. I already knew who it was, so i asked him niceley to not throw it at me anymore, he did anyway so i just yelled "get up!" and then he got up and i walked calmly around the desk and then I walked up to him and threw a mean ass right hook. It was the moment of my life that i realized nobody is going to bully me anymore, I took my stand for what i thought was right. Yeah, through it all, I had been humiliated, and I had been depressed, I had been stepped on by racist white bastards who used to squirt kechup on my shirt and in my jacket hood just because i was a little black kid. But after I threw that right hook for what I believed was right, I've not been bullied since that day.
So, I got sorta kinda a little feeling of how he felt, I was able to stand my ground against it. I just suppose this kid just couldnt stand his against those guys who asked him to kill those girls.