Religion And Sexuality

[lunexor]

Recently, I was posting replies in the forums, and noticed a thread called "Just what the hell is wrong with GAY people?" And I replied with a copy-and-paste of the message below. I just want to know what you all think of it.
Are they right?
Are they wrong?
What do you think of Prop Eight?
Could you care less?
Do you have any personal experince with the matter?
I'd love to know your oppinions.

---

Religion and Sexuality

"On her radio show recently, Dr. Laura Schlesinger said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22, and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following response is an open letter to Dr. Laura which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative.

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Law and how to follow them.


1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?


2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?


3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.


4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?


5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?


6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?


7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?


8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?


9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?


10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two differentcrops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse andblaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)


I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.


Your adoring fan,

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D.
Professor Emeritus

[Transcendence]

Well. lets see. i think that people no matter what are entitled to their own opinion. As long as they are not doing physical or mental harm to anyone by carrying out their beliefs or thoughts then I don't think it is wrong to say you are against gays. Anymore than I think it is wrong to stop or be mean to anyone that says it is ok to be gay. I think that both sides of every argument sometimes lose sight of the fact that you should respect everyones views even if they are different from your own. Its just the way things are.

[ChelseaKF]

Personally, I don't agree with Homosexuality, but that doesn't mean I automatically Hate gays. I have friends who are gay, even relatives. I Don't support it but I still love them. I do get made when people slam gays because I think that we should hate the person rather hate what their doing. And for the Religious letter. I would like to talk to that guy to ask him why exactly did he stop in the new testament? I see what he is trying to point out but he is forgetting that the new testament greatly influences the law of the old. Rules change but the basics still existed. Things like do not murder and the rest of the commandments.
If you really want to challenge someone that way you have to do way more research than that.
Thats all from me..

[Fallain]

I was raised a Methodist, going to church every Sunday. I believed in God and prayed just like the rest of my family.

I'm a lesbian.

But just because I fell in love with another girl didn't mean that I stopped loving my God or turned my back on him. Yes, I knew my religion did not support it. For awhile I put blinders on, and tried to dodge around the bush to pretend that I would still go to heaven for my love. "Love thy neighbor." I do. Even if that neighbor is gay. I found little things like that to keep me re-assured.

Then I was introduced to Wicca. I've always loved nature, call me a tree hugging, animal rights activist hippie if you will. A religion that worshiped the Earth that I loved as much as my God? That gave me as much life as he did? That didn't shun me?

I didn't immediately accept it. I scoffed at alot of the books and couldn't help but think of myself as a Methodist for years. And then one day I was laying outside under a tree, feeling the sun's energy and it hit me. It was like mother nature finally unfolded her arms and accepted me into them and all of those years of un-certainty and struggling was just a test of faith.

I still have my doubts sometimes if i've chosen the right path, but it's just something we'll never know until we die, and if you go life fearing death, then your not really living life. And no matter who gave me this life, i'm going to make the best of it. And that means loving who I love and being open with my heart.

[TheMountainScene]

My pastor taught me that there is a difference between "loving" someone and "disapproving" of something. You can love someone and disapprove of their decisions simultaneously.
You can do both.
From a religious standpoint, homosexuality is wrong.
Does that mean homosexuals shouldn't be happy? No.
Like I said in another forum, love is love. And if you love someone and you know you do, that's awesome. I have a lot of respect for people who know what they like and what they want.
In terms of God and His judgement, how that will affect people, I can't say. Like Fallain said, you never know till you know, right? So you might as well do what your heart and your mind tell you and find out on the other side.

[Fallain]

Exactly. When I first came out of the closet one of my closest friends in church (who now runs the youth class) told me "Love the sinner, not the sins." That's one thing I will remember for the rest of my life because it's a single phrase that helped me and meant the most to me.

This world doesn't have enough open hearts.

[Susano-wo]

I don't blame you for scoffing at a lot of the Wiccan/neopagan literature out there--a lot of is is wishy washy garbage. The most visible face of the Neopagan movement is quite ignorant of the actual beliefs of their religion/philosophy. (not to say that this is unique to Neopaganism. Oooooh no :P)

The problem is this makes it hard for people interested in the philosophy to really get at it. Anyway, I'm not trying to rant about Wiccans... ^ ^;

I myself am pretty pagan leaning, though I don't subscribe to any particular tradition/religion. I think the biggest thing keeping me from out and out calling myself neopagan is lack of experience. Its a very experiential religious idea. The idea that divinity pis transcendent can be easily grasped by thinking of the immensity of eternity, but the idea of an imminent deity can only be experienced. So I want to experience an actual rite before I can call myself that. Though...the fact that I sitll have not done so probably says something--I'm not that attached to calling myself one thing or the other.

I don't think I could ever call myself Wiccan...partly just because it doesn't feel right (for me)..party because I disagree with their idea ab out the practice of magic. I really don't think its for everyone. Magic opens you up to the spirit "realm" (for lack of a better term) in ways that are dangerous to those who are not skilled. Just as there are those who should not drive a car, or be doctors, or what have you, not everyone should practice magic. Which is not to say that everyone should not enhance their spiritual awareness, but that is different.

One last short thing. "Pagans and Christians: The Personal Spiritual Experience" by Dr. Gus Di'Zerega is an excellent book discussing the two religions in comparison to each other--his biggest point? At their core, they are not that different.
SOrry for by long-windedness
--Susano-wo

[Fallain]

@Susano: ...you just left me speechless.

[Susano-wo]

is that a good or a bad thing...
;;>.>

[Fallain]

It's a good thing. If it were a bad thing I would have had plenty to say about it

[Kasumi Ocada]

The good thing about religion is that it changes with time.

The bad thing about religion is that it changes with time - and then picks and chooses which of its original rules are "outdated" and which should still be followed.

There is a lot of hypocrisy in many religions, but people can also find a decent path to follow.

Its just one of my pet peeves when people do things without a decent reason. Such as when some Christians say that all the old testament rules shouldn't be followed any more (animal sacrifice, not eating unclean animals....) but then keep some of them (like the 10 commandments or anything having anything at all to do with homosexuality)

[Chere and Rose]

5. Jesus died on the cross so you don't have to "die" anymore for your sins.
Sabbath is actually not "saturday" or "sunday", I think it's just any day of teh week where you take time off.
Even if it keeps changing.

Oh and this guy I think is either real sarcastic or trying to test the christians out there.
I'ooled at the verses and it makes clear that though they are unclean you don't kill the guys.
(Not in today's society.)
Things have changed.
Everyone eats pork and shellfish.

Sexuality. is to be had between man and wife and only between husband and wife.

[SasorizaKitty]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

My absolute favorite Bible verse and Bible lesson. It sums up just about any sort of hatred, whether racism or sexism or anything else.

If you start to judge someone, just repeat that line to yourself and see how you feel then.

[Mystic]

*sigh* I'd like to see this professor change the title of his argument. Clearly, he isn't talking about religion, he's talking about the Bible (which is far from being a sacred text of all the world's religions). I get a little tired of people in America using the word 'religion' when in reality they are not referring to religion as a whole, but only Abrahamic faiths (and then, usually just certain varieties of Christianity).

I'm not sure it's particularly tactful to point out the various things in that text which are no longer practiced in the modern day and rub their noses in it either. There are more agreeable ways to cajole someone into changing their mind than insinuating that they're a bigot. They are being bigoted, but that's besides the point. If you go and knock on someone for being a bigot, they're probably not going to listen to you and simply get defensive. Maybe we aught to try and understand where they're coming from instead?

[Chere and Rose]

I think that's why you don't knock someone over and say "LISTEN TO THE WORD OR DIE IN HELL"
that's always funny whenever the teachers use that example.

Well I'll call it christianity. Variations?
There are sort of little sub-divisions in it that emphasize differentaspects of christanity. Pentacostal churches focus more on the holy spirit for example.
And then Catholic, roman catholic, etc.