The Electra and Oedipus Complexes

[Chu]

I'm sure we've all heard about these complexes to an extent. The Electra Complex applies to women, and the Oedipus Complex applies to men. These two complexes suggest that people are, in a way, sexually attracted to their parents of opposite sex, which causes sexual repression and even self resentment in some cases. The theories could be, and have been, elaborated on to assert that men and women are attracted to people who resemble their mothers and fathers (respectively) because of this. Now, we could go through how Freud's Psychosexual Stages of Development is connected to this, but I feel that it may distract some from the initial debate here. I would like to extend the discussion in that direction, however, as long as we stay on topic.


Do you personally think that the Electra and Oedipus Complexes actually hold any merit in real life? Both have been used in literature and myths. Have you experienced any situations where the complexes would actually describe why you date the people you date, or why the people around you date who they date? More than anything, do you think that experiencing either of these complexes is bad for one's health or abnormal? I'd like for us to set aside any uncomfortable feelings that we have about these theories. It may seem odd to you, but I want to have an open, unbiased discussion. If you can't get past the abnormal sexual tone of this conversation, then please don't post.

[Nova]

Well, I do believe there are some truths to it.
When we grow up, we watch how the adults around us interact, and from them, learn how to react, interact and think.
Men who grow up with single mothers who has douchebag boyfriends will most likely not learn nor understand how to be a non-douchebag boyfriend unless they actually try hard to find out what they are doing wrong and are open for criticism and improvement.
Girls with single mothers who have lots of boyfriends will not learn from their mothers how to maintain a healthy relationship with men.
Girls who grow up with limited fatherly contact, will subconsciously look for traits in men that remind them of what they miss from their dad, as well as how they have learnt growing up that men act.
I hope this made sense despite my strange grammars...

[Sailor_Gunner_Cat]

I think thats true for most girls though, unless you have severe father issues, girls tend to seek out partners who are similar to their fathers

I dated someone who had nothing in common with my father and personality (along with some other issues), and it didn't work out very well
I also find myself attracted to guys who share attitudes similar to my father. And when I sat down and figured out what I really want in a partner...it turned out to be a lot like my dad (but not 100% that would be a little to creepy)

I think it's natural to be attracted to what your familiar with, there's an odd comfort in it

[Nova]

[DrunkenShark]

I really believe in this part of Freud's theories since I really think the biggest part of who we are is shaped by our life experience from 5 -6years old and younger. I think sexual attraction (conscious or not) Nand instinctive behaviours (such as feeling protective or mooved by cute or weaker beings/animals) has an important role in human relationship and affection most of all, no matter if it is with family, friends or more or less official love interests. When under 5 years old, most of our relationships are with our family such as siblings but mostly parents; I believe it's logical to think it's then we find our first love since it's our first contacts with other humans. It's normal to think our father or our mother are our heros and look up to them at young age no matter how they treat us. There is also a bound that we know exists between parents and children, it's something culture quickly teach us: even the kids raised without one of their parents, with them being often absent or with not enough love coming from them will know he should have some bound with them.
fath
To me a woman who hates her father was long time ago in love (unconsciously) with him, and she then felt betrayed and disapointed by him at some point. If she secretly wants him to care about her or even notice her, it clearly shows she still remember her first love and hope deep inside her he'll love her back someday. If the woman mad or disapointed by her father on the opposite wants to never hear of him anymore and can't get along with a guy that only reminds her of her father, you still can see she still feels something for her father. It's like she thinks to herself "I don't want to have my heart broken ever again..." but that still means she felt something for him at some point...

For more frequent father/daughter relationships, you'll often see women going along pretty well with their father, often more easily than with their mother. It feels to me like the "ghost" of some fantasy the girl had long time ago that would cause her to see her father like who once was her prince in shiny armor on a white horse: even if she is happily married with kids or whatever, her feelings toward her father is like nostalgia and a sweet/cute/silly memory of how much she looked up at her father in her youth, of how sweet was her first love.

So I believe that want it or not it's normal for women (for men + Oedipe I don't know, maybe since it's probably quite the same and maybe in even stronger since men are know to be more affected by insticts/unconscious needs/the sex drive) and it' "dangerous" for someone's mental health if the nostalgia I mentionned earlier is not acquired and if the woman torments herself about having or not the love or even the attention of her father. In this case, it's like the beaten wife that sticks around or always come back for more from her husband, or like the stereotype of the single woman that will -bitterly- never forget her last husband and feel some disdain toward men or those who remind her of her ex-husband...

As for me I find it a little weird to admit but I think I might have some sort of Electra Complex going on for many reasons. I always identified myself more to my father than to my mother and I realise I share his values and opinions sometimes so much it feels like I still try to learn by mimicking, as if his truths were more truthful than my mother's or anyone else's truths... When I was under 8 years old, I would often cuddle up in his arms or against him, and when I was under what 14 or 15 years old we would wrestle for fun (tickle fight, fake wrestling and stuff like that) Lately we had a tickle fight with him and my sister like back in the days (except now and in team we stand more chance against him) and we had fun like in the days.
For as long as I remember caring about the opposite sex (and that goes back when I would watch only anime and educational tv shows) I always got interested in male grown up characters (never cared about boys my age or under 25 in fact) as if true men were only adults (like my father in a way). Even now at 20 y-o I'm not interested in guys under 25 (and sometimes under 28 ) since I feel they lack maturity in personnality but also physically (muscle and bone structures do change a lot in many men between their teen ages and their maturity).
The more akward in this is that I have to admit my father is not ugly: he is not bulky-muscle-man but he looks younger than his real age. But the thing is the day my mother jockingly said she and her friends thought he looked like Marty McFly (from back to the future) back when they were dating, I got a new interest in Micheal J. Fox (the actor playing the character) and the next time I watched the movies (I've watch them often before and after this) I had this weird and guilty fascination when I realised it might be true. Even more when I was shown prom pics of my dad: I got freaked out when I noticed the thought that crossed my mind: "She [my mom] made a good choice" I thought...
It still feels very wrong to me even if I never had sex dreams about my dad (XD) but I have to be honest with myself and admit that I might have this complex in a more conscious way than most women.

(ugh, sorry for my bad grammar and all >_<)

[mdom]

Hmmm tough subject. I think it is more metaphorical than real, Freud's complexes. It is pretty understandable that we need love from our parents and if we don't get it we'll look for it in other people.
BUT
When I was a kid I dreamed I was kissing my father once, and I felt SO BAD! Cause I never thought of him as someone kissable. Well, I also dreamed a boy in my class kissed me, but I was like, 9 years old and probably watching too much soap operas.

[Lilywhite Lilith]

I think if anything you want your significant other to be like your opposite sex parent romantically rather than physically. And i really wish I could remember the name of the study but it took a group of kids who were all under 5 or so and tracked them as they grew up to see who they ended up with and practically none of them ended up with someone they knew when they were that young. There was more to it, but what they took from the data was that it's very unlikely that you'd be attracted to someone you knew at such a young age as an evolutionary thing to prevent in-breeding.

[ecco]

wow that last bit there is really interesting pretty clever, really.


Well... I always thought Freud was full of crap, but then, i've only known his theories "at a glance" so I'll just move swiftly on from that XD


As for Electra/Oedipus, in my own personal experience I have never gone for guys who are like my dad in either looks or personality or anything like that. My dad is short for a man, slight of build and shy and passive. He is a loving husband to my mum and a loving father; though his parenting is very uneven. As a child I was "daddy's little girl" - he used to take me swimming, ice skating, horse-riding and we spent lots of time together. Then when I was 7, along popped my little sister. She has learning difficulties, so that on top of the fact she was then the "baby" meant she gets a lot of attention. And since my older brother is the oldest, the only son, and has alot more in common with my dad, they often do things together, while me and my dad no longer do.

I went through shit during my teens just like I'm sure many of us did, and at the time didn't feel close to my dad at all so never told him any of what was going on (partly because I was resentful of the fact I didn't get his attention anymore) and so when I acted out he had no idea of the reasons behind my behaviour, so our relationship completely broke down and for a good few years we barely spoke. I've been in counselling 3 times in my life so far, the first time when i was 10, the second and third in the last few years - and both those times, the subject of my broken relationship with my father has come up, and always makes me tearful. Because despite the way I ended up behaving towards him, I felt guilt, resentment, regret, and anxiety - mainly of losing him without ever repairing it.


However, all of that is well and good, but doesn't say much in context of this complex... for as I said, the men I fall for are nothing like him, except for perhaps that I like men that are also slight of build and always with pretty eyes (my dad has very nice blue-grey eyes). However I am always attracted to tall men, unlike him. And in terms of personality traits, I usually go for out-going, loud, confident types.

Take Sam for instance... He has more in common with my mum than with my dad. They get on well enough, but are totally different in both looks and personality and even background.

The odd thing is, now I think on it, I wonder to what extent Sam may have such a complex; His mother is short, slim, very good looking, and is a very hot-headed, strong woman. She also has blonde hair and blue eyes.

Me: blonde hair. blue eyes. short & slim. Pretty (not to brag; I'm just not going to sit and bitch about how I'm not good-looking enough compared to airbrushed ladies in magazines, hah) and I have a very tough, defiant personality. Coincidence? XD

[OrangeAutumn]

I disagree whole-heartedly with Freud's work. He makes it sound like a child is conscious of his/her sexuality when children are trying to find an identity and that is all I have to say about that matter.

[ecco]