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neomattlac



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 PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 12:45 am Reply with quote        
I read your posts all the way through.
I have suffered from depression for 5 years, and have only recently even considered the idea of medication. I always hated that idea. But recently, I've been thinking about The End, and that basically means I need some serious help. You can criticize me all you want, but don't twist my freakin' words. I did meditation for 3 years, until I just found myself going through the actions. I have tried focus meditation, relaxation meditation, "disappearance" meditation, sleep meditation, etc.
I used to have control over my mind, but when it fucking turns to thinking about running my car off the road or jumping off most balconies I see, I know something's wrong. And just meditation and trying to get rid of stress isn't going to help.
I know the side effects of medication, I know that facts and figures and shit. I nearly freakin' published a paper on the affects of social anxiety on depression. I have spent years of time researching psychology with a large chunk focused on depression and anxiety. I know what's going on, and I know I've crossed a line at some point; one that I need help crossing back over.
You know what though, sure. I'll do the opposite choice. Instead of choosing the "fight", like I always do, I'll choose "flight." I'll move to the Philippines, and get a job selling ramen. I'll have a little Japanese wife, and a house on/under the water. How about that?
As for long posts, I read them. I read them because they wouldn't be written if they weren't important.


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fickle



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 PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:13 am Reply with quote        
when you demand from me to not twist your words, i cant promise anything. i will tell you i didnt twist your words, however, i dont know if you'll believe me. i didnt twist your words, and i have no control over how it's perceived.

i'm smiling because youre being so passionate about your desires. i find it comforting in a way. i think youre alright.

if you dont know what you are trying to remedy, no amount of meditation, or medication will rid you of your troubles. i think that few people take it more than 10 years because they dont really have an idea of why they are taking it, what they are trying to remedy. what is causing you to have suicidal thoughts? it only helps to get rid of the symptoms, it doesnt fix what is "wrong". i still stand by what i say about meditation being more effective, if you really want to take it than i truly hope it benefits you in getting to the heart of the matter. i think more research to treating depression effectively is in order.

now we're getting somewhere. why do you think youre having suicidal thoughts? what are you thinking right before you have them? how do you feel right before you have them?

i know we're not talking about science here, but sometimes when people are looking for answers they search for things that will confirm their beliefs instead of searching for counter arguments to test the validity of their beliefs. we need help.

what do you think of the third choice? and maybe you can still have a house by the water.

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neomattlac



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 PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 2:44 am Reply with quote        
Passion. That's a word I haven't had used to apply to something I have in a long time. At least in the positive sense. I've lost my passion for the world and what I want in it, and I think that's part of the whole issue.
Anyways, one of the predominant feelings I get, before a bad period, is actually a dual feeling of exhaustion; physical exhaustion and exhausted in trying to hard towards nothing (so I guess, it's actually hopelessness).
I can't say you're wrong in what you say, because nothing is absolute, not even black and white. Anyways, those feelings morph into not being able to block, and even encouraging, all the negative feelings I have about myself and the world. I often feel that the world would be better with me out of it. Indeed, that is often a predominant thought. That feeds off the idea that I haven't accomplished the impact on the world that I thought I would or, worse, I've just left a negative impact on the world that's only increasing.
It's like I'm a leech that the world hardly notices and when the world does notice it, the world grimaces. I'm just a big ogre, dragging him club and destroying the world.
The heart of the matter is that I don't fit in, even with myself. The work I do, the major I'm accomplishing, the topics I talk about; it is not me. But the world is not ready for me, because, mixed with the good, there's a lot of bad, and I don't want to hurt people, but it'll happen. And I've never let myself go. I've held myself back since in second grade, when I was playing dodgeball, hit my friend in the face with a dodgeball, and felt kind of happy. Happy, not because I hurt him, but because I hit the target I was going for. I broke his glasses, and his family had a hard time getting the money to pay for a new pair. I wanted to do something, but I felt... useless. I couldn't do anything.
EDIT: I'm sorry, but what do you mean by the third choice?

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fickle



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 PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 9:11 pm Reply with quote        
you desire to be sane and happy, it's what youre passionate about. you havent lost it.

i used to be real unmotivated to do things myself. no matter how i looked at it, i didnt feel like anything was worth doing anything for. i felt like i was dumb and worthless, and i felt really bad when people spent their time on me because i thought they could do something better with their time. so i had a sort of lazyness about me, everything is for nothing. because i felt so bad about myself, i began rationalizing the way i saw reality around that, or this image that everything lead to nowhere. anything i came across, i would connect it with how worthless it is. i dont recall everything i did to counter my dominant destructive emotion, i think i'll remember everything as we progress through this conversation. i made myself excited. like when i wasnt feeling it, i forced excitement on myself, and put on a smile (an important part). laundry? yay laundry! washing clothes, squeaky clean, folding them and putting them away, this is so much fun Happy it seems contrived, but it helped me rationalize ways to accept that view of reality of doing laundry. i did that with everything. my predominant destructive emotion was the feeling of worthlessness, and i applied remedies to that with the feeling of excitement.

i was also malnourished, weighed 85 pounds, i couldnt move fast or my vision would grey out, and i slept like 12-14 hours. i just didnt want to get out of bed. getting excited actually helped me want to get out of bed. then later on i got tired of feeling so tired all the time and lacking energy to do anything so i started learning about health and fitness, and i wont get into that because you already know where to find anything i have to say about it.

something i noticed is that your using phrasing sounds like youre seeing it as something apart from yourself. idk if youre aware of this, if thats what you think subconsciously, or if i'm just seeing things. no, not those feelings, your feelings, and they dont morph, you morph them, and because these feelings are yours, how you feel, you are encouraging yourself to be down. these feelings are not apart from you, theyre a part of you as a whole. if we analyze this part of yourself alone, we cant find a neomattlac in it, so it is not you but a part of you. it's dependent on you, your feelings are dependent on you.

i remember asking my boyfriend when we were going to go shopping one time, he told me a specific time. i was expecting to leave at that time, and when that time came around and he wanted to put it off for the next day, i felt angry. i expected it at a certain time and it didnt happen. i try to be reasonable with expectations, i dont want to expect highly of myself or other people, just reasonable. sometimes if i have high expectations and whatever i want doesnt happen, i get angry. i've set myself up for feeling that way. what do you expect from yourself? be reasonable. if you have big goals, make them smaller. set goals that are just out of your reach, things you can strive to accomplish. i think it's unfair to expect low things of yourself. come on, a negative impact?

what do you mean when you say the world? what is grimacing?

who are you? why are you expecting to hurt people? that might happen or it might not. i think youre unreasonably setting low expectations. hmm, maybe that event has caused you to conflate the feeling of accomplishment with hurting someone. idk, what do you think about that? if it's true, dont be afraid, go for it! hit the target, no ones face is in the way of your goals.

fight or flight is only useful in some circumstances, like if youre camping somewhere in kodiac alaska and a kodiac bear is in your line of sight just 100 feet away and it starts charging at you and you have a hand gun, fight. or if you live in tornado valley and a big one is said to go right over your town, get the hell out of there, flight. it raises our stress hormones, we feel tense, and our heart rate goes up. it's useful for things that require quick thinking, but with the way people are living today, our jobs, living expenses, being social, etc, it's all things that happen throughout our lives, not a quick thing that we have to stress about, think quickly about it. the things that happen long term in our life trigger the fight or flight response in our brain, but it requires more thought and time than fight or flight would allow. the third choice is to step back and think rationally about what to do.

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neomattlac



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 PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:31 pm Reply with quote        
I keep thinking about what my psychologist asked/told me the other day. "It sounds like you are protective of everyone, but yourself." I just keep thinking about it, and turning it over and over. It's true, I know that much, but there's something about it that has me... perturbed, I guess; just that I never noticed it. I was supposed to know myself and everyday I'm reminded that I don't.
That's part of my dissociation, or separation of mind and self; of reality and sub-reality. I find that your example is quite similar to myself, except I really, really liked food. It's like a quick flame in the darkness. I eventually dove into that flame, but realized my passions laid in tasting/eating the food, and making the food is merely an exhibition of my need to control. Yes, I see a separation of what I am/feel and what I see, I guess (your description was better). Part of that is that I see future, present, and past as separate entities, and such of that, I see myself as something that needs constant alteration. I know it's not... right (if there is such a thing), or rather, healthy.
Grimacing - a sort of frown that shows disgust, disapproval, and/or pain. The world as in those around me; the people I like, care about, or even simply observe.
I don't know who I am. I haven't known since 3rd grade, and that was 15+ years ago (too lazy to do the exact math). It's possibly that the feeling of accomplishment and guilt is associated, but I don't think that's true. I do think, quite often, that I don't deserve what I've gotten. A primary example of that is that I'm told that I'm fairly attractive and that I'd make an awesome boyfriend. I've asked out two girls and my first asked me out, and I still have no idea how any of this makes sense.
As opposed to using excitement to drive me, as you do, I often use the idea of a lost opportunity and even the fight or flight response to get me to do a lot of things.
I try not to think rationally, because it makes me think, think, and think, but never act.

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Remind me to remind you to give me stuff
Send me your drawings of ducks.
I have a really bad memory, so if we got into a conversation or something and I just vanished, feel free to send me a pm and I'll reappear.
fickle



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 PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 12:22 am Reply with quote        
man, i told you that a long time ago. or maybe i didnt tell you, but i sensed that was the case so i encouraged you to start spending time on yourself. well actually, what i sensed was not that you are protective of everyone, but that you specifically dont spend much time on yourself, holding yourself back from conversations because you want them to have the attention and not give people the wrong idea, make them happy. and that in a way, youre protecting yourself from the pain of hurting someone and being criticized for it. i would suggest that the dodge ball event took part in shaping that part of your personality, i dont know if it's true either, it's suspect. though, if you dont think it's true than it's most likely not. i think you are most protective of yourself, maybe the choices you make are dependent on you being a good person and wanting to be viewed as such.

quick example, if youre in sales, your boss is about to promote someone to a big position, and you think you pretty much have it in the bag and so does one of your coworkers, what do you think you would do?

i feel like im in azura now.

i <3 food too! i'm still trying to get a knack for cooking, i dont like being in the kitchen for long. i like very simple and quick recipes cos of that, the less ingredients, the better. i figured out how to make really crispy tempura a couple weeks ago. my mouth is watering just thinking about it.

i was listening to the dalai lama a couple weeks ago about examining a stream of consciousness, he said that the beginning, middle, and end are moments, and all of them are also a moment. you see, your past is a moment, your present is a moment, and both of them together is one moment too. i dont think it's unhealthy. i think youre half true because they are also together as one as well as separate. and i dont think it's unhealthy to alter oneself or change. i think it's healthy, everyone is always changing whether they acknowledge it or not, and because youre aware of that, you have an advantage on life.

my step mom would smirk a lot with a disgusted expression when i talked about something i knew. she genuinely believed i was crazy, like special in a mental way. even tried to convince my little brother and all her friends of that. i got shy just to talk with people because she used that expression so much, i didnt like the way i felt because of it. and i didnt like it when she did it around people because i feared she might influence others, and she did sometimes. i asked my dad how she was in my last call with him, he said shes the same as always, negative, complaining a lot. a friend of hers gave her a dress thats too small for her to motivate her to lose weight, i asked how it was going, he said "shes never gonna do that, you know how she is." so chances are theres someone you know who also notices the ill expressions that people put on. if they do it with you, they do it with other people too. i dont take my step mom seriously, whatever hurtful things she say, whatever expression she has, she's not driven by thought, shes driven by emotions. if she were driven by thought, she would find a better way to express herself in a way that isnt so offensive. anyways, when you see your friends and loved ones do this, to something you do or say, it's just an immediate emotional reaction. who knows what theyre thinking too, they could be thinking "damn, he beat me" or "i feel dumb" or just a feeling without thoughts. probably not having any bad thoughts about you at all. but the point isnt to to figure out what theyre thinking, who cares, whats most important in a moment like that is to not assume the worst, that it's about you. to remember you dont know.

with that example, are you saying that you dont think youre attractive and thus never deserved to have girlfriends? whats the truth though? open up a notepad, ask yourself 'who am i?' and write the words that come to mind, quick as you can, individual words or sentences, whatever floats your boat.

i see. it adds to my stress when i work with negative phrasing. like it's something i must do because if i dont, i suck, and it makes me stress. it can be beneficial to notice what i dont want because sometimes it's helpful in figuring out what i want. so with things like "lost opportunity" i'd change it to "my time is valuable" or "this is my chance," something that would motivate me positively and focus on my vision. lost opportunity would cause me to think negatively.

thats how i was too, constantly thinking of scenarios. gosh, what if this, then that, or maybe this, and i cant do that, i'll lose an eye. too much, i didnt do anything cos i was scared. it's fear that held me back, not thinking, i still didnt know how to think critically. i was thinking a whole lot of nothing lol. it took some time for me to get used to rationalizing. i dont know what i did to think about things, theres a method to it. i read a logic book which helped me form logical arguments. at one point, i argued with my own thoughts. i guess i trained myself? i'm having a lot of trouble talking about this, i'm not sure if critical thinking is something that can be taught, however, it can be learned.

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neomattlac



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 PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 2:47 pm Reply with quote        
The definition of critical thinking implies that you have thought about multiple perspectives of the same issue. For example, if you were critically thinking about abortion, you would take in the facts that some religions are explicit about it, that a baby doesn't form memories until it's three years old, that it takes at least 6 weeks before a fetus reacts to light, sound, heat, or any change in it's environment, whether you believe in the concept of a soul and, if so, when does that soul develop, etc. Not something I want to get into, but merely an example of critical thinking.
As for identity, I don't know. I've tried several times to write down my identity, but it's always shifting and there's lots of contradictions.
For example, I identify as a big guy when, in actuality, I'm average, but live in an area with a lot of shorter, skinnier people. I also identify as a lonely person, but I'm actually fairly needy. The way it feels, sometimes, is that I was bored extroverted and learned to be shy, because I feel happy when people focus on me, even if I am nervous and anxious.
I'm starting to fall asleep again, so I'll continue later.

_________________
Remind me to remind you to give me stuff
Send me your drawings of ducks.
I have a really bad memory, so if we got into a conversation or something and I just vanished, feel free to send me a pm and I'll reappear.
fickle



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 PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:37 pm Reply with quote        
thank you for clearing that up? im a little confused, i dont know what gave you the impression that i needed the definition lol. it's not just multiple perspective, it doesnt even have to be multiple perspectives, though with some things it is needed. im really not sure why we're discussing what critical thinking is, there are several methods to it. to think of a situation youre in in third person, put yourself in someone elses shoes, think of strategies for something you want. writing down your thoughts about something allows for critical thinking.

it doesnt matter if it's contradicting, thats who you are. the point is self discovery, to figure out things about yourself. everyones always changing who they are by the year, month, week, day, hour, even second. one moment you can be happy, the next sad, WHOA who are you? one moment you want water, the next you want juice, who are you?

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neomattlac



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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:47 pm Reply with quote        
Holy crap, was that only a month and a half ago?
Since then, I've changed quite a bit.
Right now, I'm doing very well, but I'm on the edge of a metamorphosis. I am surrounded by expectations of my behavior, however I want to (and am ready to) change dramatically. I'm tired of being a coward, unwilling to do what needs to be done. I want to break free and become Me. I'm held back by expectations from friends, colleagues, most importantly, family, and even myself. I'm having a hard time getting past that. I do know that a large part of it is that I'm afraid to jump without a parachute towards that change, yet that's exactly what I need.
Part of the reason that I've been coming on here less is because I'm no longer stressed by school and I've been seeing a therapist every other week.
Fickle, thank you for your help sooo much.

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Remind me to remind you to give me stuff
Send me your drawings of ducks.
I have a really bad memory, so if we got into a conversation or something and I just vanished, feel free to send me a pm and I'll reappear.
KoyiTar



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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:04 am Reply with quote        
It's been a while since I have used this thread for anything. I guess because I felt I didn't need it. Anyway I don't even know what I was going to say anymore to be honest. I was going to get some stuff of my chest but now I can't even find the words to express myself the way I want to

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Mellonin



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 PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:55 pm Reply with quote        
I think that sometimes we spend too much time looking for the "right" or the "politically correct" way of saying things. Sometimes, we just need to forget how it will sound, or what others will think of us because of it, and just let our thoughts fly. We might even surprise ourselves - I know that when I finally give in and do this, I have a tendency of discovering things that were bothering me, buried down, so that I wasn't even aware it was stressing me out.

Just me two cents.
KoyiTar



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 PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 10:06 am Reply with quote        
Yeah I suppose you're right. Just for me if I don't start off with the proper word flow it seems like I am just rambling and nobody can make heads or tales of what I am even talking about. I start off one way then go another and it just becomes a mess of my thoughts thrown together for people to see but only for me to understand when at times I really do want some sort of advice or just someone to understand where I am coming from even if they have no advice to give at all.

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neomattlac



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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:10 pm Reply with quote        
That's when you say "Screw it. They'll figure it out."

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Remind me to remind you to give me stuff
Send me your drawings of ducks.
I have a really bad memory, so if we got into a conversation or something and I just vanished, feel free to send me a pm and I'll reappear.
fickle



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 PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:26 pm Reply with quote        
i agree with neo, dont worry about what other people think Soft Smile

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only this moment is life
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neomattlac



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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:31 pm Reply with quote        
Well, that's not exactly what I meant. I meant "Screw semantics. Just write it out!"
Though I like what you said, too.

_________________
Remind me to remind you to give me stuff
Send me your drawings of ducks.
I have a really bad memory, so if we got into a conversation or something and I just vanished, feel free to send me a pm and I'll reappear.
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