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Post new topic   Reply to topic The Death Penalty
The Emo Duck



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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:03 pm Reply with quote        
This debate topic hits pretty close to home for me.
When I was 10 my friend was murder by a serial killer; and I'm the one who found her body. When they caught the guy they wanted to put him through a death penalty trial but the parents of the victims refused. He was 17, about to turn 18; when he committed the crimes; he was caught at 18. He had killed 3 young girls. The parents of the victims didn't want another life to be lost and they didn't want his parents to lose him forever like they had lost their daughters.

I'm against the death penalty. I know a lot of people think equal punishment for the crime; but that would also mean you want rapist to be raped and people who torture people to be tortured and those punishments are cruel and unusual.

I also know how some people might think it brings comfort to the families and in some cases it does but in others it doesn't.

It also costs more to have the death penalty than life in prison without parole because of the number of lawyers on the case is doubled and the number of trials are doubled and then they want appeals and then the actual equipment to carry out the punishment. A life without parole case has the normal amount of lawyers and not as make appeal cases and it costs less to keep someone in jail for 50 years than to put them to death.

A study done in 1958 by Grant McClellan shows that the death penalty also doesn;t deter crime. The 10 states with the fewest murder rates are: New Hampshire, Iowa, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Wisconsin, Rhode Island, Utah, North Dakota, and Washington; 4 of those states don't have the death penalty. The 5 states with the highest murder rate are: Nevada, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, and Virginia; all of those states have the death penalty.

There is also the chance that the person convicted didn't commit the crime; and death is not reversible.

What do you think about the death penalty? Also a little fact currently the death penalty is only allowed in murder cases.

ecco



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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:24 pm Reply with quote        
sounds like you really know your stuff. and im sorry you had to go through something so awful... i can't even begin to imagine.

i think id have to say im against it... ever since i saw something on the news, not long ago that just broke my heart. a woman who had been a babysitter had been released from jail after 3 years - she was convicted and jailed for murdering a toddler in her care. Apparently she had beaten his head against the stair banister in his home - the forensics team on the case had supposedly proven this. Only, there was no wound on the child's head - no blood on her hands - and no blood or marks on the banister. They completely lied. They also found that his death was in fact caused by an underlying medical condition and he had actually had some sort of fit, and thats what killed him. but the law turned a blind eye and jailed an innocent woman. I can't even imagine what she must have gone through in jail as a "baby killer". the woman couldnt even speak to the press when she was released, she just cried and clung onto her husband.

imagine if she had been killed for supposedly murdering that toddler... the thought alone makes me stomache turn. its too awful. and for that reason alone i could never believe in capital punishment. Killing off a few that perhaps deserve it isnt worth it for the mistakes that could be made.

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Miyani-chan



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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:42 pm Reply with quote        
I feel really bad about what happened to you, Duck. I would not be able to bear the feelings you would've felt during those times. D:
Those parents are really forgiving. I think I wouldn't have felt the same. I also think I probably would've thought the opposite, unfortunately. :C

My feelings about the death penalty.
I really think some psychos out there should just stop their life and stop harming people. But of course, law systems these days just can't tell for sure if the murderer is actually the right murderer.
I'm really referring to ecco's story. The woman didn't kill the child, yet she was sent to prison. If she DID get the death penalty though, and then they found out she wasn't a murderer, I would feel pretty darn bad. Well, actually REALLY bad.
I wish there was some kind of way to determine if the murderer is actually the murderer. That's impossible though. It would be so much easier to know what kind of punishment to give to the criminal.
/sigh
My feelings about punishments and penalties are all jumbled up. Errrgh.
:<


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I'm Christian! I'm loving it bbycakes.
The Emo Duck



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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 3:18 pm Reply with quote        
Thanks both of you for your sympathy <3 it was really hard and i was actually in shock for the first week after it happened but the feelings are easier to deal with now that I'm older and I can talk about it more freely and share my experience.
ecco



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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:38 pm Reply with quote        
well i'm glad to know you are coping so well with it. it cant be easy, im sure, but you sound like youre a strong person! Smile it is certainly easier when you feel safe to talk to people about things, especially things as awful as this <3

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The Emo Duck



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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:54 pm Reply with quote        
Yeah <3 I like to consider myself a strong person; this isn't the only thing like this I've been through.
ecco



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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:57 pm Reply with quote        
oh man >_< im sorry. i hope it was nothing even worse Sad

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The Emo Duck



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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:58 pm Reply with quote        
It's just a little different I suppose, but I've learned to deal with it
ecco



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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 4:59 pm Reply with quote        
im glad to hear that ^^ <3

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The Emo Duck



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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:26 pm Reply with quote        
Yeup <3

Ecco: That story made me sad; I'm glad they let her out though. I mean if they hadn't found evidence that she was innocent that would have been horrible.

Miyani-Chan: I understand how your views would be jumbled; I know a bunch of people who can't decide their views on it.

Menmeth



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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:46 am Reply with quote        
The death penalty in the United States as is is blatantly unconstitutional. It is both cruel and a drawn process. As it is, I oppose it.

As expected my stance is something completely different than what you might get from a first impression. (Pays to read, doesn't it?) I am all for putting down criminals, rapists, and killers like the mad dogs they are. Hangings, firing squads, and burning sound like ways I could endorse. Bring back swift justice, trial and appeal done within a month, sentence carried out within another week and done so publicly. Even for those who go to jail shouldn't be pampered like they are. Something was to be said for hard labor. They don't even raise their own food any more. At least chain gang crews could find work in construction after release; the only thing modern convicts get are contacts and street cred.

Further, I am for holding lawyers liable for the claims they make in court. If one is caught lying, punish the sleazeball for it. Their job is to provide a defense, not to lie, not to cheat, not to let criminals walk free.

Now someone is going to say that innocent people are going to get hurt as a result of this. They already do. Not only do innocent people get screwed by the system, but the vermin go free as well. On top of it the public pays for the entire song and dance. If you wish to worry about due justice, complain about the competence of the system - the ability of the judges, polices, and forensics experts.

ecco



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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:53 am Reply with quote        
Menmeth wrote:
Hangings, firing squads, and burning sound like ways I could endorse.


really now? Modern day hanging, i could possibely agree with since the noose is designed to snap the neck and kill instantly rather than have a drawn-out death by suffocation. firing squads i dont know much about, but the whole concept makes me shudder. and burning? hell no. that's incredibely cruel... and burns are so painful, hence why its so harrowing when you read about incedents of self-immolation :S

sorry but that last one is just wrong... because, if the death penalty were to exist and the public only had a say in the way it was carried out, i'd have to disagree with these... lethal injection or something like that would probably be better. since, as we can all agree, sometimes innocent people wind up getting punished - you could at least not torture them with a painful, slow, or public end.

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Menmeth



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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:31 am Reply with quote        
We had a race crime out here not too long ago, it was kept out of the news (and far enough away from a major town that the media didn't bother with it). A prime example of why cruelty is needed in sentencing.

The criminal got it into his head to 'make an example' of a family of another race he considered mongrels. Started with beating and sexually assaulting the children, leaving them tied out outside and burned their home. He didn't rape the wife, he gutted her like a hog instead. The husband got maimed, tied to a car, and drug down the road until a ranger witnessed the scene and called it in. The criminal lead the game wardens, the local rangers, and the sheriff's office through a chase before they blew out his tires, exchanged shots, and he managed to kill two deputies (one on scene, one died from wounds in the hospital later)and wing three others before they shot out his legs and took him in. He is now facing thirty years in jail. That is his reward for entering a plea bargain. No, I'm not making this up sadly. Had this happened in a major city it would have probably big national news. The sentence would probably still be the same (justice can be bought after all).

I don't see the justice in that. I don't see the satisfaction in that. The criminal is a mad dog killer with no morals and hanging is too good for him. His plea bargain should have been a firing squad, the alternative should have been something long term & gristly, that would leave him screaming waiting for death to claim him (in this case I'd suggest flaying actually).

There are felons in the jails now who do not merit rehabilitation or even compassion. They need to be used as object lessons.

I don't want to see a repeated child killer getting put to sleep like an aging family pet. I want the satisfaction of him dying either quickly (if he admitted to it after being caught red handed) or in agony (if he put up a fight and whined it wasn't his fault). And if a lawyer tried to fake evidence or bring in witnesses putting the psychopath elsewhere, hang the lawyer to boot.

Make the punishment fit the crime. If they have proven they are trying to get sent to hell on wings of fire, give it to them.

ecco



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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:28 pm Reply with quote        
see this is why i really, really hate this debate. because for all the rage that builds up in me when i read stories like the one you just told us, and for as much as i can read what you would have done and think "you're right, that IS what they deserve" i simply can never bring myself to believe in it when put into practice. the law is too corrupt.

tho, i would say in cases where it is CLEAR that the person convincted IS guilty, and of something as downright hideous as the case you just told us, death is something too good for them. i agree with that. i just think that it should be only for the most terrifying end of the scale in terms of crimes. and only when there is NO chance they could in fact be innocent.

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Menmeth



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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:19 pm Reply with quote        
One thing to think about; I'm sure that I will bring this up again in other threads. I stand by this as possibly the number one reason why the world is as screwed up as it is.

Look back on humanity. Take a good long think on when humans as a species last went through evolution. Other than a few benign alterations people are the same as what, prehistory of 15000 years ago? Only a few tweaks since 100000 (a hundred thousand years). Nothing has changed genetically since caveman days. The hairy guy crammed into a subcompact on the freeway is no different than his ancestor (who may not have been as hairy) that was grunting and burning himself on a campfire in a cave a few thousand years ago. Notions about society have advanced while humanity has, if anything, regressed.

The modern world is cavemen playing at civility. We have almost faked ourselves into thinking we are some genteel society of enlightened philosophers, somehow removed from simple, savage life.

And in the end, that makes me shake my head and smile at the irony.

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