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Post new topic   Reply to topic Just what the HELL is wrong with gay people?
Cora



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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:01 pm Reply with quote        
Can I point out something that might get people slightly angry at me? Our country was founded on the ideals of acceptance. On the idea that anyone of any religion could come to America and find sanctuary from persecution. The first amendment in the bill of rights claims that Every person has the right to the freedom of religion. A separation of church and state.

Yet it is christian beliefs that are governing this nation. The only intelligent arguments that I have heard to the negative of homosexuality have been based in religion. Therefore any actions taken against homosexuals is violating the very constitution they promised to uphold.

Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

lexi luthor
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:28 pm Reply with quote        
I can agree with that wholeheartedly.

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Cora



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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:23 am Reply with quote        
Yay!

I found that statement makes anyone against us really angry with me. Like super angry.
jel2658



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 PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 10:07 pm Reply with quote        
Just want to say a few things.
1) The religion of Christianity also doesn't allow women to high positions in the church. Just pointing that out.
2) I remember there was this hilare pic of "10 reasons homosexual marriage is bad" and said stuff like: "Gay marriage is unnatural. Americans always reject unnatural hinge like polyester and air conditioning." "People will also want to marry their dogs, because dogs have a legal standing and can sign a marriage contract." "Having gay parents will cause their kids to be gay, just like how having straight parents causes their kids to be straight."
3) Forced into taking religion classes by the school is horrible when you're gay. I had this religion teacher and if I had said anything of being gay i would have been curtains, even though we were on good terms. The new is a little better, but is still against the marriage and makes me awkward when we get into the subject.

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Saygen40



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 PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:46 am Reply with quote        
I was at the dentist Office recently and picked up one of the new Time magazines. The cover read Gay marriage Already Won: The Supreme Court Hasn't Made up it's Mind - but America Has. The article was pretty interesting and did a wonderful job explaining the evolution of the debate over the last two generations. Also had a lot on DOMA and the current Supreme Court hearings.

I also found this quote a little scary. Admittedly, I havn't kept up the court hearings enough to know exactly where the debates are heading.

“Our opponents know this, which is why they are hoping the Supreme Court will cut short a debate they know they will ultimately lose if the political process and democracy are allowed to run their course,”


Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2013/03/28/how-gay-marriage-won/#ixzz2X6u21dhl
Sameth_Delaetus



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 PostPosted: Sun Aug 04, 2013 4:27 pm Reply with quote        
-DOMA is dead.
-13(?) states now allow same-sex marriage (Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Delaware, Maryland, Iowa, Minnesota, Washington and California)
-DC, at last check, is down with it as well.
-Don't Ask, Don't Tell has been repealed.

Things are looking up Happy

That said, I'm prolly gonna piss some people off buuuut...
If marriage is a religious institution that is for procreation:
-Why do we let old people marry?
-Why do we let infertile couples marry?
-How do atheists/agnostics/people who aren't Christian/Jewish/Muslim get married?

If marriage is a "religious institution", especially a Christian one, it shouldn't be available across the board to those who aren't Christian/Jewish/Muslim. Which would not fly, just saying.

Also, I'm pretty sure most gay people who want to get married don't want to be permitted to marry just so they can go to a church and make them perform a marriage ceremony when the church/its members are personally against it. I'd say what they want would be the benefits afforded by marriage via the government that civil unions simply don't include. Cuz, guess what, the two are not equal.

For example.

We have Joan and David. They got married, moved to several different states due to their jobs, then later on decided they wanted a divorce. Assuming the split is mutual/all their ducks are in a row, they can get on with the divorce.

Now we have Joan and Jackie. They had a civil union and while they were married also moved to several different states because of their jobs. Now they want a divorce. Which means they now have to go and live for six months in each state they lived in with their civil union in order to dissolve it properly, depending on where they started their union/if the other states recognized it. The laws involving civil unions are nowhere near as clear-cut as those for dissolving a marriage. And those laws aren't even clear cut to begin with! Y'see how this could be problematic?

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Owl Infestation



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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:39 am Reply with quote        
A few weeks ago they approved that gay people can get married. (not in a church but it's marriage and not civil partnerships anymore!) I don't really get why it had to be "approved" though.
Marriage is devoting yourself 100% to the person you love. Gender should not play a role into that factor.
Strix Varia



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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 3:10 pm Reply with quote        
Haley wrote:
FROM PAGE 3 - Well, you should look at it from the religious stance. (no, I'm not a bible jockey- I'm not even religious.) Marriage was created by religions to bring together a man and a woman. For what reason, I haven't read up on. If a religious leader is against going against what a religious ceremony was made as and for, that is their right to decline. Marriage is, in essence, a religious binding of (what I am sure is) a man and a woman.

So think of this in the bible thumping people's stand point.
Take out Marriage and replace it with Religious Binding.

You say anyone should be able to marry who they love.
I completely agree, but... marriage isnt just
"I love you and I want to spend my life with you."

Marriage is religious.
Separation of church and state cannot apply because this is
fully and without a doubt all religious.
(which is why Prop 8 was ridiculous to begin with, because the state cant
dictate what the church does, nor can the church dictate what the state does)
Now, a civil union, that is 100% state, so the church cannot interfere if that is
what a gay couple decides to do. But marriage is their territory- religion.

And if the religious doctrine of which you want to get united by
says its against the rules, Its not to be cried over.
If you want to push it, that is a slap in their face. That is saying that
you want them to alter their belief structure so you and your loved one
can be together forever. Which you can do anyways without making a
bible thumper go through identity issues (because they live by the rules)

To each their own, and believe as you will.
But you cannot go at it so blindly and fight with just your heart.

This opinion mirrors my own. When you want to use the term 'Marriage' you are defining a religious act. These religions were based on beliefs of people thousands of years ago. Presumably these beliefs were based on their understanding of there preferred deities.

I tend to believe that most of these beliefs are outdated and outmoded. I would never want to see someone stoned to death for harlotry for example. Which is why we now have a separation of church and state. It annoys me greatly that legal tax benefits are tied to religious marriage. It annoys me even more that you can get 'married' by a justice of the peace or an atheist ship captain. And it seriously bothers me when same sex people claim they don't want to get married for the tax benefits. They do not want to call it hand fasting. They do not want to call it religious binding. They want to get married!

This tells me they want to take beliefs which are thousands of years old and say "You have been completely misunderstanding your own religion for all these centuries. What your 'deity of choice' really meant is exactly what will make ME happy right now". If they respected the religion, they should respect is rules, traditions, and customs even if they are outdated by today's standards. If they don't respect the rules, traditions, and customs, then they don't respect the religion. Why would you want to use a religious term from a religion that you do not respect?

Keep in mind that I am perfectly fine with same sex COUPLES. What bothers me is the constant misuse of the religious terminology. I think that every family should get the same tax and legal benefits regardless of gender, religion, or race. But that is a matter of STATE. Keep religion out of it.
KathiraNarae



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 PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:19 pm Reply with quote        
Just want to throw in my 2 cents on Leviticus's hatred of homosexuality.

The Old Testament of the Bible is very similar to the Torah, but the rest of the Bible basically has Jesus's messages of love and tolerance trumping everthing else. Any Christian who claims to hate homosexuals based on their religious beliefs is actually being more Jewish than Christian.

They're also picking and choosing rules, which they shouldn't do. Leviticus also says that a woman on her period should go out into the desert to purge herself before coming back. Now, how many women actually do that these days?

Basically, most who denounce homosexuality based on religion is more than likely picking and choosing which bits to follow, and probably only really read the sections that agree with their own, bigoted rules. They're about as Christian as a Muslim who engages is terrorism, i.e. in name only.
superbinka



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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:07 am Reply with quote        
The bible quote that a whole lot of people automatically fall back on is the "man shall not lie with man as with a woman" quote, from Leviticus. Leviticus is full of the rules that Jesus was fighting to override, rules that nobody follows any more. We don't approve of slavery, we don't stone people for anything, we don't tell women they can't do things, yet people continuously treat this one "rule" as if they follow all the rules in the bible closely. I have two different crops planted in the same field, so punish me. I wear cloth made out of two kinds of fabric blended together, so punish me. People use bible quotes to back up their existing prejudice, they aren't prejudiced because of the bible.
Mock



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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:00 am Reply with quote        
Religion, religion, religion religion... guys, marriage is no longer exclusively religious! You can have a secular marriage, with no mention of a church. Marriage is now a civil right, and religion has no say over the law. If you're feeling queasy about secular marriage, how about this: we give civil unions the exact same rights and privileges as marriage.

Also, you can have whatever religion you want, but it only applies to you. You can't force someone to follow your beliefs. Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion.


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KathiraNarae



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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:10 am Reply with quote        
See, the fact that religion is 'supposed to be a religious thing' is one of the (many) reasons religious nuts are against gay marriage! Religious nuts are generally the worst about 'no gay marriage, no gays period', though, which is probably why this ended up going to a religious discussion.

And as much as freedom should mean freedom from religion if you so choose, it doesn't mean religious nuts take any notice. If we're not converted, we go to hell, so they see it as their duty to force their religion on us to 'save our souls'.

And then there's the fact that too many idiots believe that freedom of speech should only apply to those with the same viewpoint as those same idiots. Which is, in truth, the real heart of most bigoted crusades, debates, opposition, etc.
Weiss



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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:29 am Reply with quote        
Angel wrote:
I honestly don't get it.

People are trying to amend the Constitution to take away gay rights. Where do these people get off saying the Constitution, what gives everyone rights, should take them away?

I really don't understand where the hatred comes from anymore.

I mean, the bible does NOT say anything against a man loving another man. All references to homosexuality prove Jesus was in reference to straight men who would cheat on their wives with male Pagen whores. PROOF SAYS MEN LOVING MEN IS NOT SACRILEGIOUS! D<

If America ever amends the Constitution to take away gay rights, I'm moving to Canada.

Think I could be a good Canadian actor? XD


The bible actually does imply this please do not make such claims.

Gay is considered to be one of the last rebellions against God, who created women FOR men. Not men for men or women for women. God has a plan for us all but being gay is not one of them. (Leviticus 18: 22) Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with women kind: it is an abomination.(must I explain what they mean by kind oir do you get it?)
KaceyCat



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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 2:29 pm Reply with quote        
While that is infinitely debatable, what about the whole 'Religion and Politics should be kept separate' thing? Give me good reasons as to why gay marriage should be illegal NOT INCLUDING any religious beliefs. And don't give me that 'But it's gross!' crap. Is it so morally wrong if two people love each other, regardless of gender? And if you're against people of the same gender being together, what's your stance on transgender people? Is that so wrong to you? That if a person is uncomfortable with the gender they were born as that they take it upon themselves to change it to make themselves more confident, it's considered a sin and they shall burn eternally for wanting to be happy with being themselves?! You'd rather people be miserable and alone than happy?

To address another aspect:

Between gays and religious folk, who do you see pushing the subject on others more? Personally, I've never had a lesbian try to convert me to lesbianism. And yet I have, in fact, had MANY religious people try to force their beliefs on me. I was born into a Lutheran family, went to church as a kid, Sunday School, all that jazz. But I decided it wasn't for me, and backed off. My family still believes, but they don't care that I'm not straight as a pin. (For the record, I'm asexual.) And they don't try to push religion back on me. I'm old enough to choose, and I've chosen not to care.
Weiss



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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:22 pm Reply with quote        
I told you the Bible scripture, I do not wish to argue with angry people firstly from experience you won't listen. Just say rant on about how its unfair ect. I hope you all will know soon eventually and get to know God for yourself, you might not agree but I do.
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