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Post new topic   Reply to topic Just what the HELL is wrong with gay people?
KaceyCat



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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:11 pm Reply with quote        
Weiss, honey, you want to talk about people not listening? What about you? I said non-religious reasons for being against gay folks, and here you are, giving me more Christianity-based arguments. What happened to 'Love thy neighbor' and all that jazz?

And for the record, I'm not angry. I'm making a point. As much as I love debating, it irritates me when people have a very narrow mindset and don't consider the other side.

Now don't go telling me I'm either going to burn in Hell eternally or finally see the light. Because neither option is going to happen. I'll die, be buried, my body will decompose, and nourish the Earth just like every other living being that dies. I don't believe in the afterlife, or deities, or any of that. I was raised being brainwashed to believe in it, and decided it wasn't for me. So please don't push it on me.

I don't mind that you dislike and disapprove of those of the LGBT+ community. Honestly, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But if you start telling people to not be happy with someone they love, then I have a problem.
Weiss



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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:16 am Reply with quote        
You're jumping to your own conclusions about my personality. Shocked Firstly I don't understand why you people complain about this. If you want to know why people are against it why don't you get to know God for yourself? It's like fussing over a wall that's there in your way when you can simply just climb over it. xD

Consider the other side? Love? ... I wish you knew what I knew. You people are hurting yourselves and you don't even know. Christians are human beings before they knew God they were normal people we already know the other side we were there, What is there to consider?
You say i'm not listening because I'm talking to you about God but I actually am you just don't understand what I mean. If you got to know God you'd know. That's simply fact.
lexi luthor
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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:07 pm Reply with quote        
Nobody is going to win over in this type of argument, so I vote we leave it alone and move on /o/ You're both right in your own beliefs so don't worry about pushing your beliefs on each other.

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fickle



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 PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:14 pm Reply with quote        
honestly, people can acquire both good and bad "morals" from reading and following the bible, hitler, the kkk, jim jones, all people who have committed mass murder and have claimed their actions are righteous under the word of god. now, i'm not saying that religious people who think homosexual people are an abomination are "evil", but i am suspicious of their own psychological issues, to have read the bible and choose to follow "morals" that are divisive.

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Weiss



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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:44 am Reply with quote        
I've also wondered what went wrong with them, once you read the bible and you see what's going on you can easily be lead astray by your own ideals and still believe that it is for God. I mean you can read the bible and believe but it doesn't really automatically make you holy, if anything the Devil is out for you more than ever. So with people like those in most cases they were deceived by their own vanity.
fickle



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 PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:49 pm Reply with quote        
believing gays are an abomination because the bible might say it is, is divisive. it puts you against gay people, resulting in conflicting situations, hate, and even worse, violence. conflict is not the message that jesus christ, part of the trinity therefore god, was spreading, which is peace, forgiveness, etc. leviticus does not specifically say that it's an abomination for a man to love another man, it only touches on the subject of sex, and it doesnt say why it's an abomination for a man to have sex with another man. people who read this make connections in the bible with things that arent connected. like eve, who was created for adam, this doesnt have anything to do with what is said in liviticus, people are just making that connection on their own. or what occured in sodom and gomorrah, which is another story that's not clear why god turned these towns into fire and brimstone. was it because they were doing gay acts, or because of the other sins that were occurring, such as rape, sodomy (anal and oral sex which not just gay people can do), having sex with animals, lazyness, pride, im not sure what else. anyways, the point is that the bible doesnt say gay love is an abomination, it says gay sex is and it doesnt say why. also, believing gay people are an abomination is divisive.

gay earthlings are born often, we can witness this in nature everywhere, it's not just humans, it occurs in nature that your god has created. some speculate it's natures way of preventing overpopulation. just let be. what would the world be like if we could love the way we choose, or the way we're born to love one another. idk what would be more disappointing in gods eyes, one who spread the message of love and compassion, or one who prevents it, or slows it down. personally, i think it's preferable to love.

edit: no, those people were influenced by gods own words to kill. they took gods advice to kill, not the devil. read the bible, it advises people to kill gay men, kill anyone whos not christian, kill their own mothers, daughters, brothers, fathers, for diverting from the christian religion, kill witches, kill adulterers, whoever hits their parents, the bible even promotes the silence of women, and rape so long as the womans father is payed. it's not just "evil" men who kill, churches do it too, crusades is just euphemism for war to conquer . why does god have as one of the ten commandments to not kill but still promotes killing? you cannot blame the devil, you cannot say that, it's gods own words. this is what you worship. a lot of christians say that the first testament is irrelevant, but you seem to believe it is. if so, read the bible, you have to know the things that youre promoting, death, destruction, murdering, oppression of women, slavery, rape, incest, there is no excusing those men, or yourself from gods own words, the devil doesnt have anything to do with it.

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Weiss



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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:03 am Reply with quote        
._. I have read the bible I'm not talking about the bible men , every time I seem to talk to you , you always reply to something that I wasn't talking about. Are my words too vague? *sigh* Also it's wrong to have sex with the same sex because God made women for men, like I said before. It's considered an abomination because it is considered an ungrateful act against God. Who created you in his own image to be a certain way but you want to be the opposite.

I'll say this. I gave you people the scripture you got it, you can think whatever it wants to make yourself feel that it's okay but I gave it to you. And it's my fault I shouldn't have replied to anything else after.

Also I'd like to enlighten something once I gave you the scripture you people come out with these questions and then I realized it. You don't want too hear the truth. Confused you want to think about everything that's wrong with it and reasons that make it not clear or okay.

Why ask a question if you don't want the answer because you don't like it?
fickle



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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:08 am Reply with quote        
wait wait wait, we werent talking about gay people? that's what this thread is about. what are you talking about if not homosexuality? you say that god created women for men, not men for men, you are talking about men specifically. this time, and the last time, youre saving face. please have a conversation with me clearly, dont just say things then come back at me with "thats not what i was talking about" cos im not the only one having this conversation, it's the both of us, i didnt fail this conversation and turn it into something it's not. you did cos you can simply correct the misunderstanding. if you were misunderstanding me, i would casually tell you, explain to you how theyre not related, and fix the misunderstanding somehow. misunderstandings are going to happen, it's just a bump on the road. tell me, how are men loving eachother not related to our conversation when leviticus only talks about men? and why do you think thats the only think i was talking about? i was clearly talking about gays, and what is said in the bible which only brings up men. just sayin, i'm just sayin.

my question was a very legitimate question, it's clear as day, i actually wanted you to answer it but it's real hard to have a conversation when i keep getting the run around, youre talking about this, youre not talking about this, youre talking about that. i know what the truth is, your god can be violent, and benevolent. it doesnt mean you have to accept and follow it's violent, divisive nature. and the other truth i see here is that you want to talk about your religion, let people know about it, but you dont want to talk to someone who has questions even though you say youre here to help us understand. if youre trying to help, than do that. i've only seen you push people away, point fingers and blame the other for conversations going sour. blame doesnt allow us to see the what actually happened to our conversation holistically, it just narrows in on one detail and ignores everything else. oh wait, youre not blaming? accusing me of not understanding you is blame.

i wasnt asking you to give me a non religious answer as to why gay people are an abomination, to me that's a slap in the face to your beliefs, i cant ask you to forget about your religion. so dont compare me to anyone else. youre just making accusations. i'm sorry if you find this conversation frustrating, but dont accuse me of asking rhetorical questions, dont accuse me of not understanding you, you dont know if i did or didnt, if youre having trouble understanding the relevance of what i'm saying then ask me to elaborate, dont accuse me of bringing up irrelevant things because perhaps it's you who doesnt understand it's relevance. just tell me you dont want to talk to me. i'm trying to patiently discuss the bible with you, but youre just pushing me away.

edit: i'll ask unbiased people, is anything that ive stated in my posts here not relevant to anything weiss has stated?

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Weiss



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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:35 am Reply with quote        
What are you talking about? I am talking about gay people xD. Did I ever say I wasn't?

When I mentioned the bible men that was to your last paragraph about how god told men to kill. Then I went back to what I was originally talking about.

I never said my intentions were to help much as I wanted too because it didn't seem like anyone wanted help on understanding it more like just wanting to debate. When I saw that I became kind of reluctant to go into detail which was selfish. My apologies.

Also I can't give you a nonreligious answer because that is the truth, it is not biased, it is simply fact, which is what you guys don't want, but I can try to translate it into something reasonable if you want.... I can try.
fickle



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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:32 pm Reply with quote        
cool, then we're on the same page. dont tell me what i'm saying is irrelevant cos we agree that it is. :P

"did i ever say i wasnt?" no, you said what im posting is irrelevant. thats why i asked questions so we can get to the bottom of this.

my very first post in this thread wasnt a reply to you, it was a reply to the op. my first post simply stated that people can acquire both good and bad morals from the bible. the cults and world leaders i brought up is relevant to this thread, then you replied to my reply which was entirely for my post as you didnt bring up what you initially posted, then i responded again, therefore whatever i was first talking about is relevant to our conversation.

you posted somewhere that you'll answer peoples questions, i suppose thats only true for your lounge thread. this thread is about whether or not gay men are an abomination, it is a debate. it's not wrong to debate. my question was genuine, i was really looking forward to reading your reply, but instead i'm meat with hostility.

i dont want you to give me a non religious answer to this, i am respecting your beliefs by discussing this topic in a religious point of view, i'm not asking you to forsake your beliefs for this conversation because i feel that is disrespectful, and would only result in an answer that's not honestly coming from you. do you understand now?

i did want an answer to that question, but when it comes to gay people we'll probably have to agree to disagree, idk. i can tell you my views on that, see where it goes from here. i dont believe that we have to follow the word of god to a T. now, i came to this conclusion because it can either inspire us to be a pious individual, or a psychopath, depending on our own psychology (even if it was the devils influence, it's still the word of god people are choosing to follow). personally i believe that viewing gays as an abomination is leaning more towards being a psychopath.

a fair warning, i'm not religious, if i were to define what i am i suppose that would be somewhere between ignostic and agnostic. and buddhist.

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ravebloodnymph



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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:41 pm Reply with quote        
I shouldn't even get involved in this discussion because it'll just raise my blood pressure.

I just need to reiterate something that Weiss has said:

"I'd like to enlighten something once I gave you the scripture you people come out with these questions and then I realized it. You don't want too hear the truth. You want to think about everything that's wrong with it and reasons that make it not clear or okay.

Why ask a question if you don't want the answer because you don't like it?"

Maybe because the answer is...oh, I don't know...incorrect? It's not the truth, it's your opinion. The entire Bible is one gigantic opinion that's been forced upon hundreds of thousands of MILLIONS of people.

lexi luthor
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:41 pm Reply with quote        
Answer me this Weiss, do you take to heart everything else that is written in the bible, such as not being allowed to wear blended fabrics, or not being allowed to eat cheeseburgers, or not being allowed to cut your hair, or not being allowed to wear gold, etc etc...

If you don't, it just doesn't seem fair to single out one part of the bible and be against gays if you aren't against everything else as well.

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fickle



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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:41 pm Reply with quote        
ravebloodnymph, i'm just riding on your post here to bring up something interesting about the bible, it's a combination of older religions. there were a lot of different religions centuries before the bible canons were ever written, like the book of genesis has way too many similarities with the story of gilgamesh, a babylonian pegan story. the character god itself is a combination of two different gods, thats why it seems so bipolar. and there are a few saviors who theologians believe inspired the character of jesus christ, like the hindu savior krishna, and the buddha savior siddhartha buddha, to name a couple. the bible being inspired by older religions also explains why there are a lot of astrological events in it, like the birth of jesus during the winter solstice, etc, and also holy building built to point to certain stars. older religions have been doing that long before the bible was written (stone henge, the pyramids, countless of others)
i mean, christian theologians would argue that the bible was written before the other religious text, but christian theologians dont believe in carbon dating lol.
http://danielmiessler.com/writing/bible_fiction/

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Maeve
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:21 am Reply with quote        
Ugh, I'm not getting involved into this because I already feel my head aching and this probably won't help...

Hm, hey people! While I love to see you debating and stuff, I'd just ask that you stay on topic with what this thread is about (gay, gay rights, etc.). I mean, so far it's fine, but I can see this turning into something else pretty quickly, and by respect for the OP and for the clarity of the thread and forum, I'd just ask that you take other debates somewhere else.

Feel free to make another thread to discuss (non-lgbtqaetc.-related) religious thing though! Happy

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fickle



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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:19 pm Reply with quote        
well, certain things make it clear to me that it's the opinion of primitive men who lived over a thousand years ago, so it's hard for me to take it seriously when it comes to gay rights. but yeah, i agree, it is veering off track a bit. maybe i'll make another topic about it some day.

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