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Post new topic   Reply to topic Activists - Hypocritical?
Chu
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 PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:12 am Reply with quote        
In recent years, I've noticed a spike in the attention that activists are getting. Some of the most prominent and most widely supported are gay rights activists, woman's rights activists and animal rights activists.

Now, of course, I believe in equality. I'm not really sure about how that I think about animals though, so I'll just maintain a neutral stance on the subject. However, a terrible trend has recently caught my eye: many of the supporters of such activist groups are largely hypocritical on their stances and/or their methods of reaching equality.

I'm sure that I'm not the only one who gets the feeling that woman's rights activists are trying to assert dominance over men. However, sometimes I do feel like I'm the only one who gets the feeling that gay rights activists are needlessly screaming "bigot" and "homophobic" at any opposing ideas to theirs.

I don't know how to make it more clear that I DO believe in equality for people of all age, sex, ethnicity, orientation, religious practice, etc. I DO NOT believe in the supporters of activist groups that are trying to assert authority over those who they say they are trying to find equality with. I just can't agree with or condone that. I'm really trying to avoid such an argument because that's not what this topic is about. Please avoid passing such judgments on me, and if you can't, take those personal issues to private messages. The same goes for everyone in this thread. Treat everyone with respect.

Many feminists... well... look at the title, first of all. While feminist does literally mean someone who wants equality for men and women, the inherit feeling that the word alludes to is dominance. It sets a tone that tells people, "This person is fighting for women" and many feminists will agree with that statement. While there's nothing wrong with the statement alone, I find hypocrisy in the contrast that it draws from the idea of equality. I know that I'm definitely not ALONE in my opinion on the matter, but I know that people who think similarly about it are few and very far in between.

On the subject of gay rights activists. Well, I'm sure that I'll receive a lot of hate for my statements here, but I don't want to censor myself just because a few people are going to get offended. Most of the gay rights activists/supporters that I've met are over-zealous young people who aren't afraid to get vocal about what they believe in. I see no issue here. What I see an issue with is that those same people jump down anyone's throat if they make a mildly offensive comment, regardless of whether it's directed to them or not. They pull off-the-wall meanings behind the words of others when the subject of gay rights hasn't even reached the conversation. They will even outwardly say that they hate most straight people and most Christians because those people are "insensitive" to their pursuits. I don't understand how a group that supposedly supports universal respect and rights can generate so much hate.

The individuals that act this way - not just the two groups that I pointed out - immediately lose my respect. Those people are the type to jump on any statement and twist it to their advantage. It's deceptive. As a result though, they make me lose respect for what they're advocating. I try to keep those biases contained to just those individuals, but when I see so many acting in the way that they do, it's very hard.

Again, I have no problem with equality or the pursuit of equality. All I'm saying is that some activists take their passions too far and make a very bad name for the rest of their supporters. I know and support plenty of gays and women who believe that they are not given the proper, equal treatment that the US constitution amends them.


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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:07 pm Reply with quote        
I understand where you're coming from, actually. It seems like today the only way people can hope for equality is to bash the other groups down to where they feel as bad as the group being discriminated against.

I've heard the phrase "Few people will contest that women are men's equal, but few will agree that feminity is masculinity's equal." I know that this is true, because many women's rights activists seem to think that women can only be equal to men if they bash men and condemn things that are too girly or traditionally feminine.

For gay rights activists, it's basically the same principle, but unfortunately the majority of people who choose to be active have almost no understanding of what the fight is about. They listen to one speech and then take a few facts out, throwing them at people over and over again. The young people who are eager to jump at a cause seem to think that hate is the only way to battle hate when that's not the point of the movement at all.

As for animal rights, I'll be the first to admit that some of the groups are just insane. It's not that the cause is a bad one. Animals shouldn't be used as an inanimate resource when they can feel pain and have needs too. It's just that some people seem to think that this cause is so great that people should be blowing up buildings and breaking into labs.

I don't think it's that the causes are flawed at all, and like you I'm a big fan of equality. It's just that too many of the activists getting attention are being streamlined for the media, and multi-faceted problems are being painted as targets for impressionable people looking to change the world.

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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:22 pm Reply with quote        
I totally agree. It's the reason I don't like feminism, since it seems that many feminists want less equality and more power over men, which is just as wrong as men having power over women.

I truly hate animal rights activists. So many don't fo the research and do incredibly stupid things as a result. While I don't like animals being farmed only for fur or tested on for the cosmetics industry (cosmetics are not usually necessary), I wouldn't be here if it weren't for animal testing for medical reasons and having animal fur as fashion or something is fine if the fur is a byproduct from an animal bred for other reasons (like rabbit fur from rabbits bred for meat). Of course, my stance on fur does not mean I'd be so stupid as to release all th mink in a fur farm, allowing them to wreck havoc on the native wildlife and drive them to near extinction. THAT'S the biggest thing I take umbridge at, since the overal animal damage is actually greater than if the mink had been left alone.
Chu
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:04 pm Reply with quote        
Oh dear.

I just want to make a disclaimer: you guys are digging into 3-year-old threads. I don't mind it, and there aren't any rules about necroing. But, at least for me, opinions can change over time. Mine happen to be particularly malleable. I don't think the same things that I did back when I made this thread. (I can go into my current opinions on these topics if you all would like.) I guess what I'm getting at is this: When you read threads from a few years ago, remember that a person may have changed their views since then.

I'm not saying this because anyone has done anything wrong. I just get nervous whenever my old threads come back up because I'm not very happy with who I used to be, or what I used to think. I'm very self-conscious of that.


Anyway, I'm sorry for derailing the subject. I won't post again unless I have something to say about it. Thanks for reading this. ^^;

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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:13 am Reply with quote        
I try to maintain a 'No more than one page or one year' rule for where I post. But if someone else brings it up, then it is fair game Cool

Yes, activists are definitely hypocritical. They have to be. In any negotiation, the idea is for two sides to discuss their ideas, reasons, and opinions until a satisfactory compromise can be made. In the perfect negotiation, nobody gets everything they want but everyone is satisfied with what they get. With the understanding that you will probably not get your initial demands, it is very common to purposely exaggerate your initial demands with the understanding that you will be 'talked down' a little. This goes for large scale social negotiations also. If Mz. Feminatzie forces her daughter to try to join the boy scouts just to make a point, most people will see her as foolish but at least it will make people talk and consider women's rights.

The problem is that many activists tend to forget that they are fighting for the middle ground and see their original exaggerated goals as the only acceptable goal. You can only push people so far before they feel they HAVE to fight back. If you push people past that point, you loose whatever ground you originally gained. That goes for all activisms. Often times, small gentle steps are better than large angry leaps. But small gentle steps do not make you famous.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:09 pm Reply with quote        
Feminisim itself wants equality, but it sin't about equalizing both genders, it is about bringing women up to the same level as men are already at. I.e. equal pay, equal job opportunities, it isn't about going over them, and it isn't about dimininshing males. The reason its not for equalizing all rights, is because of the way over reacing fails causes. When you reach for to many things it becomes impossible to make any chnges. So rather than fighting for women to have equl pay, and men to have the same opportunities to do housework, they can't both be endorsed by the same group, or change doesnt happen. There are in fact mens marches though that do the same thing but in support for males. there is lot of attention for male marches, but you probably don't hear about it to much, because people, and media tend to focus on extremities.

There is a change in additude towards people claiming to be equalists, which supports both genders, but it is possible to be a feminist and an equalist. Its just fighting different root causes for the same idea of equality.

As long as you don't focus on the extremities, these activists have changed social ideas. The way we vie women in the workplace, has changed since the time of freud, for the better, the way we view homosexuals today has changed, there are far fewer public beatings, and suicides, because of this issue, and more organizations are coming up with alternatives to creating products without harch chemicals tested on animals.

There are hypocritical people, who get lot of media attention, because people love to discuss their superiority, but activist groups do tend to make changes, and they do stand for good causes, just look for the educated people who want to change socities views to change laws.

Otherwise you are stuck looking at the hypocritical loud people, who just want to bring others down to imagine themselves better. This does nothing for causes.



But if you believe in any form of cause, and you think that things are being done hypocritically, be the change you want to see in the world. It is entirely possible to set up yur own rallies, and volunteer at shelters, and make sure that money goes to the places that says they are supposed to. You don't want to see hypocritical people in the media, then become an icon yourself. I myself live in a very political city, and you might not have as many opportunities, I don't know, I personally haven't stalked you. but it is amazing to find something you genuinely care about, and to help it onits course to becoming a reality, there is so much more that happens to make a change than the loud voices you hear. Support the things you believe in, or things will never change, and ou will hear the same idiots speak again and again.
SeizingSpades



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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 8:11 pm Reply with quote        
Also, if you've changed your opinions, and feel comfortable sharing them, I'd love to read about them, and maybe even what caused them to change? Smile

its always interesting when things people are passionate about differ over time, and the reasons behind it can be so stark, and interesting Smile

Although only if youre comfortable Smile
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