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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:48 pm Reply with quote        
i don't read magazines. i see a lot of covers at some places i go to, some things are ridiculous! a lot of them are focused on body image, how ugly or fit a famous person is.
i don't remember where i heard this from, jennifer lawrence has been quoted saying she would be considered an obese actress, or something like that. i don't know how this could be. how did it get this way? i thought about it a little.

everybody is critical. i remember when i was younger, heavier people would look at actresses and say things like "look at that skinny little thing, her thighs don't even touch. what man would want that? cant even grab anything." people would say anything to make themselves feel better for not having a boyfriend, or having big ears so they make fun of someones nose, or calling someone finger toes cos their own feet arent pretty... really, i don't know why people are critical of other peoples appearances, it's just my personal experience of what ive seen people do, so i think thats one reason why theyre so critical. it's easy to assume what theyre doing, i could tell by the smirk on their faces. other than negative comments, there are people who compliment how cute someones nose is, or how great their legs look, etc. these comments get out. they get out, they spread, people continue talking, commenting on media sites, and guess whos reading those comments? THE MEDIA MARKET! people who work in the media are interested in the criticisms and compliments, they want to sell you a product you will be pleased with. i mean, if people don't like how big someones nose is, they'll have less fans, which means less views, which means less money, and they wanna get payed, they want to provide you with what you want so they can get payed. it's their job. theres nothing wrong with wanting to get payed, it's their job to supply what you demand. i'm just saying, if i demand a muffin and i go to a bakery, the baker is going to want money for a muffin.

i don't believe it's a huge scheme to get people to want to buy a bunch of make up, have liposuction, labiaplasty, or breast implants. actresses don't get lip injections to get you to want lip injections, they did it because the audience watching them are critical and theyre competing with other actresses for the spot light. porn stars get labiaplasty because the people who watch it thinks it looks better. i think it's unreasonable to suggest that people would form false expectations and expect all women to be like that, and especially to even suggest it's mens fault that it's like that. and so what if people find it more attractive? theres a lot of larger men in porno. that's also in demand in the porn industry. so what if people find that attractive? i wont say it's womens fault for my boyfriend getting a penis enlargment spam email. you want smaller penises and uncut vaginas in x rated movies, then demand it.
i don't deny that you arent being targeted by the market, to, for example, buy some gadget that would be outdated and replaced in a year or something. i just know that it's you who demands! it starts with you! YOU are the one telling the market what you want, it doesnt tell you what you want. i think it's silly when a lot of women say that it's mens fault for magazines advertizing better sex or images of women being submissive to a man. no no no, if it's bought, that means theres a demand for it, the market would respond to that demand with more of that. so you see, i dont blame women for the things that are in mens magazines, i dont know whats in them, i don't read magazines lol, but i'm sure i'll find a lot of image advertizing to them too. get a closer shave she'll love [image of a woman rubbing all over his face]. with axe body spray, you'll have trouble keeping them off of you. some good looking guy using a tool. etc.

anyways tl;dr
people are critical of how famous people look
famous people and the media market will respond according to that
i really dont think it's a big scheme by men, or women... or reptilian jews.
what are your thoughts?

heres some famous people who have probably had some hate comments regarding their appearance. and do you know anyone who has had this sort of criticism?



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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 5:02 pm Reply with quote        
I'll admit, I've heard people talk about criticism regarding famous people, but most people I talk to personally only criticise the personalities/news we heard about them. For example, 'so and so was on the news for homophobia. He sucks.' <- That's the basic thing we talk about. Someone has a big nose? Heck, why should I care? So do I. It's part of being human to be imperfect. It just doesn't give you the right to be a dbag.

But...I'll admit that the media sometimes feels like it is pushing an 'ideal image' that isn't as ideal to a lot than it is to others. To be honest, I don't know who decided the 'ideal' figure or image. But your appearance seems to say more about you than it should- and I admit, I've had my moments of judging on looks too. I'm not perfect either. But, it was really frustrating to me when a guy sitting next to me on a plane said I was clearly Jewish because I had a big nose and dressed 'formal'. FYI, I was just wearing a sweater and a long skirt because it was chilly out but I didn't feel like wearing pants. It wasn't 'formal' by any means. I've just always liked plain clothes, and...Well, my nose IS big. xD

But in general...People are critical about how anyone looks to a degree, and the market will indeed respond based on various criticisms. However, the market also does tend to try to push it, I've found. They like using the criticisms we get to our advantage because over time, many of us WILL become self-conscious from it. It isn't just famous people, after all. Everyone gets criticism sometimes. If anyone claims they've never been mocked even by being told something as simple as 'you're ugly' or 'that sweater sucks'....I'd be in shock if it were honesty o.O; But perhaps that's just because of my personal position and experience....

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:36 am Reply with quote        
june, yeah. as long as there are people, they will find something to criticize. i don't think too much of that, i just wish that if someone is complaining about the images we see in the media, that they'd stop complaining and support the people/things they desire to see in the media, that way the market would see that there is a demand for such things. maybe then there will be more average weight people on tv.

LOL i think any girl that appears european and pale-tan in a long sleeve, and long skirt can pass off as a jew, no matter the nose size cos the clothes are more of a giveaway. oh, and dark hair too i guess? ive never thought about it actually, what a weird thing to bring up though. i have a big nose, i dont know if it would be considered huge.

yeah it is pushy, to even go as far as to keep a profile on people. like, if you have a sears credit card, they'll keep a profile on you. target, grocery stores, drug stores, facebook, etc, so long as someone has an account with them somehow, they'll keep a profile on you and share this information, including your address, with other businesses so that those businesses can advertise to you.
the idea of an ideal image cannot be possible without values made by the general public. in mauritania larger women are more beautiful than smaller ones, it's not like that in america, their values are completely different. this tells me that the ideal image totally depends on what people think and value. i still think that if people were to make more of a demand for average weight women, like jeniffer lawrence, than we would see more of that on tv and such, instead of complaining and blaming it on a larger corporate agenda, or men which feminists do.

i used to get real self conscious too. i'm not sure whos most affected by the beauty on tv, teens are impressionable regarding appearance. when i was a teenager i wanted to be as pure as some of the characters i saw on tv. it wasnt so much about their looks, it was their personality, and i had none back then. made me feel afraid to talk to people cos i didnt want to be judged. i never took kindly to criticisms back then and i think that could be because my accomplishments went unnoticed while my faults were criticized and alternatives werent offered. the people i grew up with are the lowest common denominator, theyre all self centered and their happiness comes from their possessions which they quickly grow bored of, they felt satisfied in other peoples failures, especially my step mom. yeah, i was really wanting a friendship which was based on the heart like the characters on tv. i think i was a cup half full kind of person back then, i saw what other people had that i didnt and felt envious.

cathyrow, lol, it's almost like a mating dance. i'm actually not sure where youre going.

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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:13 pm Reply with quote        
The problem is that most people simply have preferences and don't know why they have them. But the fact that many of their preferences for physical appearance tend to be similar tells us one of two things: (1) it's biological/evolutionary, and people have developed preferences for potential mates over time because they are signs of health and fertility or (2) this image of what beauty is is ingrained in our culture, and at an early age, we see that this is what people think is beautiful, and we decide that objectively it must be beautiful. I think these ideas all get their roots in (1) but I think (2) is a more relevant and useful answer. We decide what is attractive based on what we are exposed to, and what is portrayed as desirable by the public, which mostly amounts to what the media portrays as desirable. It's not necessarily a corporate scheme, but it's definitely true that corporations are taking advantage of the fact that things work this way, that people are so easily persuaded by what they see in media. I see where you are coming from; if the public wanted to see larger women in the media, they could demand it. But the only way to make the general public find larger women attractive, so they would want to make that demand in the first place, is to portray them as attractive in the media. The media have control over the opinions of the general public because most people don't really think for themselves. Sad but true.

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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:44 pm Reply with quote        
thats a great point. seeing familiar things helps us get a more consistent view of the world. i remember one conversation i had about racist babies haha! babies born to white people, for example, are familiar with white people, and when they see a black person for the first time, theyre afraid cautious of getting near, they don't trust them just yet. the babies arent really racist :P also, ugly people scare babies too, they like pretty things and gaped crooked teeth and big noses can be scary to babies. jerks... lol jk. anyways yeah, i agree it starts early on too. my momma said i was fraid of black people.

i think clean and people who appear to have good hygiene are better representatives for a product than someone whos dirty. a saggy skinned, baggy eyed, early aging person wouldnt be able to sell underwear in an add even though a lot of people are like that. i agree too that they gotta be clean and pretty still, even if overweight, otherwise it could turn off prospective buyers. i saw a model with a gap in an advertisement on the back cover of a magazine at a hair salon. i tried to search it, i cant find that advertisement, but i found her on the cover of vogue. if she werent received well in the public eye she would be out of a modeling job, people like her. i would enjoy seeing natural things that we are born with like that in advertisements. not cos i find it fair for those of us who are self conscious about our imperfections cos thats something each individual has to work out on their own, but cos i like seeing "imperfect" people in a confident way.

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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2014 7:15 pm Reply with quote        
The idea with biology is more than just that we are exposed to it, it really is changing the way every part of our body interprets our preferences. An unrelated/but related issue. A few years back when I was in middle school, in the U.S. they ran tests on these two girls who had no socal security cards, or any identifying paper work, to see if they were American because they claimed to be American just not born in a hopsital/registered til they needed to go to college.
The tests came back confirming that they were American. Which as we know is a nationality, not a race. They were able to tell they were Americn because of the exposure to chemicals in our water and foods, that have literally altered their bodies to the point where you can test that they are a certain nationality.
There is a lot of belief that our preference in men and women is a lot like this too. Because of the hormoneswe put in chicken, and other foods to make them grow faster, our bodies are being slightly altered. Its supposedly causign women to develop breasts at a younger age, and to develop smaller breasts on average because of this. Although there are opposing studies on the breast size debate. This matters because it is changing what is around us in a way that isn't affected by the media, additionally, it is believed to be what is causing the change in preferences and development of men. We as a culture are liking males who are thinner, taller, less muscle-y, and all around more feminine. Men are developing to be this way. This isn't thought to jsut be sexual selection at its finest, but because of the hormones in our foods.

Culturally women tended to have few desired traits, and were easier to find an ideal, men liked what was considered good during their time periods, fat (reasonably), dring poverty, to show their wealth, skinny, to show their beauty, and it goes on. but symetrical faces, tall bodies, perky breasts, were standards because they showed good genes, or things people lusted for. men didn't suffer the same beauty pitfalls because different things were desirable to different women. This is thught to be so that the women, who were forced to spend a lot of time working together, wouldn't fight over men, while men who could hunt alone, didn't have tis problem.
Now there are more beauty standards for men as well, and looks are becoing more uniform like women, it is no where near the same degree but it is coming. And it seems to be biological, and evolutionary.

As for the media, there have been so many studies on sexuality and selling, and it shows that women buy things more when women see the commercials sexually. It isn't just for men that we sexualize things, people in general respond better. The age old saying, sex sells. it is one of the truths of the world. The media wants to sell their product, so they sexualize as much as they can. It isn't necessarily to shape our desires I don't think, but more to portray what they find we want, which in turn projects the ideal image to everyone, even if only the majority liked it to begin with, which could lead to influencing the minority by its availability, so I do agree to that point to a degree.

I don't personally think sexuality is a bad portrayal. Froma young age we are drawn to it, and at the same time are told that we will be looked down upon for portraying it, or idiolizing it, while it surrounds us. And we all inately have a natural desire towards it. Many things make us believe it is bad to be portrayed sexually, or to be impure in that way. historically, again, sorry XD, it was used as a way to control women, in paternally dominated societies, and religiously, as well as domestically for families. But we are in an age where we can control the size of our familes through diffeent remedies, where we can question, and follow what we believe, rather than believing what we are told, and where we are becoming more comfortable with expressing our desires rather than allowing ourselves to be directed. the sexual take of the media isn't a bad direction. Its just the extremities, when our models are anorexic by definition, and need to be underweight to get jobs, and images are so photoshopped that they no longer make them look human, that it is to far. Skinny can be just as beautiful as curves, and as fickle said, larger women insulting skinny girls for being skinny, and skinny girls insulting larger girls, its not productive, both sides can be beautiful, but extremities that are forced as an ideal, are detrimental to finding beauty, and thats where the media fails us.

But for the media, it is and will always be sold to the majority, and while people claim to want larger girls, and more realistic images, they don't sell as well. They make a huge statement, and get a lot of attention for 15 minutes, and then when the controversy goes down, people forget and its ignored. This isn't to say that we don't still want it, it just shows that it isn't something we think about as often as we think we do when we stop and think about the morality it teaches. But with all the demand for different body types, it isn't profitable to companies because of this. It is more profitable to sell these images of women who are idealistic, and above us, because jealousy and fantasy work better than reality.
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