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Post new topic   Reply to topic Religious Tolerance

On a scale of one to five, how tolerant is your area of "alternative" religions?
1 -- No tolerance
5%
 5%  [ 1 ]
2 -- Little tolerance, or very hush hush about it
10%
 10%  [ 2 ]
3 -- Moderately tolerant, but leery
15%
 15%  [ 3 ]
4 -- Tolerant
30%
 30%  [ 6 ]
5 -- Very tolerant
40%
 40%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 20

Amlynd



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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:34 pm Reply with quote        
Notice: This is not a hate speech, and is not directed at any particular religious group, because that would be a wee bit hypocritical of me. It is, however, written specifically about a group of people who, regardless of their religious choices, cannot accept people who are different than them. It's been eating at me for a couple weeks now, so I had to get some other opinions.

Right. Onto the meat of the post.

A few weeks ago, a friend of mine admitted to her mother that she was of a different faith than the family (or indeed, the regional) norm. Her mom is normally pretty understanding, allowing said friend to express her opinions about most anything she wants to say without much fuss (because teenagers are people too, contrary to popular belief Smile), and consequently, the girl and her mother were very close because of it. She felt that she wasn't doing what was right, keeping what she considered to be such a huge secret from her mother, who had been the only person in her life to really "get" what was going on in her head.

Her mother, as anyone might have expected, freaked out, and is now trying to remove the girl from the school we both go to, saying that her friends (myself included, and I get the impression explicitly mentioned) have "brainwashed" her to believe as she does. Now, I'll admit, I do recall quite frequently reminding her to "believe what she feels is right," so if that's brainwashing, I'm guilty. But last I checked, that was considered encouraging someone to have an opinion.

Ack! But this is not about her mother! It is about the subject at hand!

Being of an alternative religion myself, this hits pretty close to home--while my parents are agnostic and support me in all of my decisions, it is hard to find acceptance in a very closemind, very religious, and somewhat xenophobic community. Got to love the deep South.

I know religion is a big kuffuffel, and everyone gets their knickers in a twist over it, but seriously. Some people don't realize that their right to swing their fist ends where someone else's nose begins.

My question to you, oh learned members of Midorea, is why?

Why is it that people feel like they have to be the shepherds of everyone else's soul? And why do they feel like they're the only ones who can make reasonable decisions? I mean, you don't see those of us who believe differently running around and telling all of them that they have to believe in a certain way, or making our children believe a certain way. So why do they do it?

Alternatively, if you don't have an answer, have you ever had to cope with this sort of thing? And if you have, how did you do it? Because I'm sure my friend could use a couple of pointers right now.
Maeve
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 6:57 pm Reply with quote        
Well, religion is a pretty complex subject. I often think that people react so strongly about it because, in the end, religion is what gives you your values and moral principles (or a lot of them, anyway).
Thus, if someone says he disagrees with your religion, some people take it as being "I don't agree with your moral sense", which makes them angry. This is especially the case with parents/children relations, because obviously parents try to show their kids what they believe is right and wrong, so if the child comes in saying "I don't believe the same things you taught me", parents won't really take it well.

Of course, that only applies to people with closed mind, but sadly a lot of people seem to be. Wink

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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:44 pm Reply with quote        
Some people really do believe that they're "saving" non-believers by "converting" them. Some people are highly opinionated, and can't help but to get into heated debates about what they care about. Some people have been challenged and questioned for so long that any reference to religion is a knee-jerk reaction for them. And in the end, some people just can't stand to have others disagree with them.


I gave up arguing over religion long ago because in the end, you're arguing over opinions, which will lead you absolutely nowhere. I'm personally agnostic myself, by the way, and I too jumped on the bandwagon of Christian-bashing whenever I began believing what I believe today. Admittedly, even hearing or reading the word "Christian" makes me cringe. I live in the south like you, and my grandmother, who I've always tried to please, is very religious. Eventually, I just had to stop talking to her. She's the typical Christian contradiction who likes to preach the word but never follow it.

Now, I can respect someone who silently believes what they believe - I truly don't care. I can even respect someone who wants to defend their beliefs too - I don't care about that either. Closed-mindedness is even understandable because psychologically, we have to protect ourselves from anything that puts our core beliefs on the chopping block. Imagine how traumatizing it would be to realize that these things that you believed your entire life are completely false - not to mention the mortification that you would feel in the fact that you were wrong. We HAVE to be closed-minded to an extent in order to protect ourselves. What bothers me is when people either jump on a bandwagon or follow what their family follows, only because it's easy for them or just "makes sense" - with little thought. I don't like people who take the easy way out and don't think for themselves.


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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:16 am Reply with quote        
Unfortunately this is the problem with faith. Religious people seem to think Faith > Reason. and thus their faith stops them accepting or even considering other opinions than the ones they (often blindly) follow.

Also religion gives its believers a set moral code. To think outside that box is, in religion's eyes, to have no morals at all. when in fact it just means you find your own morals through logic, reason and emotion.


I'll put it plainly now, I have a huge problem with organised religion. It itself is a form of brainwashing. Sheep that follow a middle-man who for all they know could be lying about what God wants us to do in this life.

My own belief is difficult to describe. I'm somewhere between agnostic, deist and pantheist. :/ I prefer to keep an open-mind.

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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:05 pm Reply with quote        
right now i dont even know what religion i am but my mom definetly understands she freaked out at first but she says she got over it but i dont think she really is
Amlynd



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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 12, 2010 10:33 pm Reply with quote        
So, you guys are suggesting that this isn't something that's going to change, then? On a grand scale, anyway...Not that I disagree with you, especially not after my experiences on the matter, but it does seem like a cynical outlook to adopt. I suppose it's hard for me to comprehend after being raised in such an accepting household.

I think I see your point, though, Maeve, about parents. I know, for example, that my parents were very irritated with me when I had a (very brief) experience with blind faith, which was one thing that they had always cautioned against. I still think her mother is overreacting, but perhaps that's because that's not how my own mother would act. Still, it's unfortunate that some people can't distinguish between "I don't believe the same things you taught me" and "I have gone out and made my own way in the world, and have thus formed my own opinions." Just because you don't share the same spiritual beliefs as someone else doesn't mean you don't agree with the moral lessons they've taught you.

Wishful thinking on my part, though, I'm sure.

Chu, you make some points that are unfortunately very true. Sad I'm alright with people who like to debate religion, but it's the ones who honestly believe it's their job to "save" non-believers by converting them who scare me. I mean, these are the same people who claim that other religions and cultures are trying to do the very same thing to us...and hypocrisy never looked good on anybody!

And ecco, I don't think I could agree more with your sentiment.

I wanted someone else's opinion because I'm having a bit of trouble seeing the inherent goodness in Mankind (something I really want to believe in, even if it's been squashed down by a squadron of evil turtles) over the much more obvious evil. It's not full scale evil, just little things, like this religion issue. It's a bit of a vicious cycle, isn't it? The oppressed becoming the oppressors? Happens all throughout history.

Well...Huh. That's a wee bit discouraging, isn't it? If only we had enough people like Emily's mom, who were willing to compromise by doing their freaking out in private--the world would be an okay place.

I mean, unless it was something else bugging us, which it undoubtedly would be.
Rin



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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:49 pm Reply with quote        
I don't have much tolerance for any religions. :B But If I have to pick a favourite it would be Buddhism/Shintoism. And it has fucking nothing to do with me liking Japan. It sounds like the most tolerant religion. ( Since that's pretty much the subject here. ) It's more about how to live than how to not live. I get annoyed at dumb basses who can't think for themselves. Books can be true but you also need proof. Just writing it down wont do it. There are events in the bible and other religious writings that may very well have happened. But then there's the omg big list of what you can't do or you go to hell. That's bullshit. Really if you believe in this I feel sorry for you. Follow your country's laws and you'll be fine.

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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:53 pm Reply with quote        
I believe in letting people believe what they want to believe. I may not agree with what they believe in persay but I am not going to tell them they are wrong for believeing how they want. There's the freedom of religion for a reason.

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 PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:15 am Reply with quote        
I think tolerance doesn't have anything to do with the religions themselves
It's more of a personal moral choice, regardless of your personal religious choices you have to be able to understand others and set your disagreements in choices aside. Religions may say there tolerant, but unless the members and followers are emotional and mentally ready to accept others than it does no good

I was raised in both the Methodist and Church of Christ. My parents let me decide when I was older what I wanted to baptized in. I chose the Methodist church because the views are more open and they tend to believe the more forgiving aspects of the New Testament. As the church of Christ is more the Old Testament and hold the traditional views of higher male roles (I don't mean to offend anyone who prefers the church of Christ)

But it entertains me how Christianity picks and choses the sections of the bible they want to follow, I mean it is pretty contradictory at some points. But I think whatever religion you chose it's mostly just a relationship with you and your God (or deity)

But I can understand why your friends mother my be freaking out a little, although she seems like she need to calm down a little. People who firmly believe in the structure and the "script" of religions, the ones who throw everything they have into it often for comfort, might not react well to the idea of losing a love one in the afterlife. When you wholeheartedly believe in something it's hard to change your views on a dime

TGPretender



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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:48 pm Reply with quote        
I think there are a few reasons for people parading their religion to get followers.

For one, humans have a innate need to be one with each other. They want everyone to be like everyone else. Even kids acting out and trying to be different congregate in groups of people like them. We want to be one big, like group.

Secondly, there is the fact that we like being right. Even the most meek, mild mannered person wants to be right. Religion is a way we can do that. We can force our "rightness" onto others and scoff at them for being "wrong."

And then there is the belief that anything different than us is "wrong" and "evil." This gives rise to the people who are not satisfied in simply being right, but must prove it by destroying any who oppose them.

Most alternate religions do not tell their followers to actively recruit new members, like the more established ones do. Religion makes people... crazy, for lack of a better word. Even the most rational person can do stupid things for it and feel "right." (I am pagan myself but come from a family of various Catholic and Christian sects, so I've kind of seen the gambit.)

I've always been open with my religion, just as I am open with everything else. Frankly, it takes too much energy to hide things. As such, coming from the south, I've come upon a lot of people getting hacked off for my beliefs. There was a while there when I believed all Catholics and Christians were crazy unmentionables, but I have since realized that every religion has its radicals and to appreciate the message, whether I like the delivery or not.

Parents are especially difficult. I was lucky with mine but I've heard many, many stories. The only advice I can give your friend is to be steadfast. Frankly, her mother is just scared and is trying to protect her in the only way she thinks she can. Give it time. As her mother grows more used to the idea, it should level off things, but only if your friend continues to stand her ground and refuses to budge.
Breaker-Lim



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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:37 pm Reply with quote        
To put my two cents in, I think that belief is such a complex thing because it's so close to our hearts. In religion, you are expected to follow a certain code and believe certain things. It's literally the only thing you have when you have nothing left.

Unfortunately, this is no excuse for intolerance, although many people choose to intermingle the two. I live in a very close-minded community (in the far north, by the way, so region has nothing to do with it), and having a group dynamic really helps some people get through problems. And everyone is affected by this fervor.

Having an alternative religion (a phrase that in itself makes no sense, because how is one religion any less accessable than another) means you're part of a minority and you're someone who is outside of another person's comfort zone. It means you're different and possibly a threat. You have to work at being nice to people, and frankly too many people are lazy and don't like having to change when they're happy where they are.

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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:15 pm Reply with quote        
I think the real reason, at it's heart, is that people tend to believe that only those with the same mindset as them are 'people', and everyone else is less than them. It's a fear of the unknown and the different, and it tends to be, in some form or other, the root cause of bigotry, hatred, and other vitriol.
Juneberry



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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:33 pm Reply with quote        
I can't say I've had to deal with this issue too often. My father knows I don't have the beliefs I was brought up with, and is very supportive of it. Even at a young age when I wasn't sure, he always encouraged me to go with my various friends to their own places of worship or just to learn about their beliefs and religions themselves, wanting me to be my own person with my own true beliefs. As such, I haven't had the issue at home.

On the other hand, I have a doctor who is very religious. We've known him since I was a small girl, and when we were talking at his office once, I mentioned I don't believe in the religion he and my family generally are- my family to a lesser degree. He sorta jumped from this, telling me I should take another look at our religion to remind myself the wonders of it.

However, these two moments aside, I've never had anyone be quite so jumpy about someone believing differently, at least personally. However, religion does tend to be a strangely controvercial topic. I've met all sorts of people with all sorts of belief systems, and many of them do have their prejudices over other religions. They also tend to try to push people to become their religion- but that's just a part of the population.

Not all catholics or christians stand at every street corner trying to force a bible on you- in fact, quite a large number don't. Sadly, your friend has one of the people who can't contemplate difference within her unit well as a mother. I think what might help is if somehow your friend's mother could be made aware that her friends had nothing or little to do with it, such as yourself.

Her mother has always supported her up until now, and you by saying to believe what is felt right to your friend...Isn't that just supporting her as well? Personally, I find that the reaction is basically hypocritical to how she usually tries to be with her child. Perhaps, pointing out you were just being supportive because she mentioned her beliefs to you or something of the sort, will at least get her mother to understand she isn't 'brainwashed'. Or something...

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